This is exactly why I prefer tools that use the very simple modified BSD, MIT, or X11 which is compatible with both Apache and GPL. I'm a little bit peeved at all the snipping going on between Apache and FSF.
Personally, I don't see what the hundreds of words in the Apache 2.0 license buys Wicket. Maybe someone can explain. My 2 cents. - Jonathan >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2005-09-02 7:32:46 AM >>> BTW, Rickard's remarks on "changing his license" has been proven to be a bunch of bunk. The version of his code included in JBoss is and always will be LGPL. On 9/2/05, Ate Douma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well, I'm not a fan of licensing stuff either and INAL etc. > But, I think it *is* of utmost importance, especially for framework > projects like Wicket. > > I would advise all the team members to read and follow the recent (this > week) discussion > started on the ServerSide about this exact subject: > http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36156 > > This thread is already massive and contains besides very interesting and > valuable opinions > also a lot of rubbish as usually. > As I said, INAL, but the one thing that's very clear to me from that > discussion is that > choosing the appropriate license *and* complying to it is not to be taken > lightly and can > be tricky to say the least. > Using LGPL licensed code especially is very dangerous in my book, because > everyone seems > to have a different interpretation of it. > Maybe the LGPL is crystal clear in legal terms in the end, but as long as > so many people > disagree about what it really means, I don't trust it... > > Most notably in the discussion on the ServerSide is the unexpected trick > Rickard Öberg is > now playing on JBoss by declaring all his original work within the JBoss > codebase (which is > a massive amount) to be GPL from now on: > http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36156#182919 > > Checkout section 3) of the LGPL for a clarification. > This might end up as being nonsense and of no consequence, and maybe not. > I really don't know but I love to find out how this will work out. > > Anyways, for Wicket, I didn't know yet it already depends (and contains) > LGPL code. > Turns out the DatePicker embeds and uses the calendar javascript library > from > http://dynarch.com/mishoo/calendar.epl. > > First of all, as result of that, I think we need to distribute the LGPL > license with the > Wicket extension library as required by section 1) of the license. > Not complying with that is a violation of the LGPL. > > Furthermore, (and this one is very important to me as Apache committer) > this also means usage > of the Wicket extensions is no longer possible for Apache projects as the > ASF doesn't allow any > LGPL binding. While this is a restriction only from the ASF itself and not > purely based on > the ASL 2.0 license of Wicket (it *is* allowed to bind to LGPL if you > want), many companies > won't allow using the Wicket extensions anymore because they don't trust > LGPL either. > > I've worked myself on a commercial project which didn't allow any LGPL > based or linked software > because they didn't trust that license and couldn't be sure about the > consequences. > Reading the discussion on theServerSide again reinforced that I have to > agree on that assessment. > > So, I think I need to make my position clear on this matter. > Binding Wicket extensions to LGPL (as it already does) makes it useless to > me and many others. > And binding Wicket core to LGPL would make the whole framework useless to > me and many others. > > I do think it is important to be very careful about all this. Some choices > can end up to have > irreversible consequences and in my view seriously endanger the acceptance > of Wicket... > > Eelco Hillenius wrote: > > Yeah, I don't know. I allways hated the licencing stuff. Wish there > > were just two licences. However, we allready depend on some LGPL > > licences and I have seen a lot of other Apache 2 style projects do > > that too. I can't imagine this becomming an actual problem. But if > > someone would be so kind to explain the details/ in-outs that would be > > nice. > > > > It would really suck if when you choose for Apache 2, you couldn't use > > LPGL at all, and if you choose LGPL, you couldn't use Apache 2 at all. > > I'm pretty sure I speak for 95% percent of the programmers if I say > > I'm really not that into the details; as a customer I want to know > > whether I can ship it with commercial projects, and - maybe - whether > > I can ajust the source and ship it. > > > > > > Eelco > > > > > > On 9/2/05, Igor Vaynberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>If the license is such a big issue why not just keep this project as > contrib > >>instead of extension, that way the license doesn't really matter. > >>-Igor > >> > >> > >> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > >>>Ate Douma > >>>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:38 PM > >>>To: [email protected] > >>>Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Integrating FCKeditor > >>> > >>>Nick Heudecker wrote: > >>> > >>>>I'm looking to integrate a JavaScript WYSIWYG editor into Wicket, > >>>>similar to DatePicker. FCKeditor is LGPL, so I don't think > >>> > >>>there's a > >>> > >>>>licensing problem. Any thoughts or advice before I start > >>> > >>>doing this? > >>>I have no opinion (yet) on the technical merits of FCKeditor > >>>or any other editor. > >>>But, I'm not in favor of introducing LGPL as Wicket is under > >>>the Apache 2.0 license. > >>>LGPL really cannot be seen as comparable nor compatible to > >>>the Apache 2.0 license and in my opinion introducing it now > >>>might harm acceptability of Wicket in the end. > >>> > >>>There are other options with more compatible licenses, > >>>although I don't know if they match FCKeditor on features and > >>>technical quality. > >>> > >>>For one, there is kupu which has a BSD-style license. > >>>I haven't used or worked with it myself, but I know others > >>>have embedded it very successfully in several CMS engines, > >>>like Zope, Apache Lenya and recently Apache Graffito which > >>>uses it for editing html documents within a JSR-168 compliant portlet. > >>> > >>>If you are interested: http://kupu.oscom.org/ Online docs are > >>>available from their subversion repository: > >>> http://codespeak.net/svn/kupu/trunk/kupu/doc/ > >>> > >>>Regards, > >>> > >>>Ate > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------------------------------- > >>>SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & > >>>EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development > >>>Lifecycle Practices Agile & Plan-Driven Development * > >>>Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA Security * Process > >>>Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Wicket-user mailing list > >>>[email protected] > >>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------- > >>SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > >>September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle > Practices > >>Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & > QA > >>Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * > http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Wicket-user mailing list > >>[email protected] > >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle > Practices > > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & > QA > > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * > http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > > _______________________________________________ > > Wicket-user mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle > Practices > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > _______________________________________________ > Wicket-user mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user > ______________________________________________________________________ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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