There is always special cases that needs special treatments, inference is done again and again, there is no point to recompute everything with an algorithm or a query with hard coded exceptions when we have a simple and regular system who can handle and put the exceptions in the datas.
Class of classes is such a system. I'll quote the python programming language motto here "explicit is better than implicit", which is not really different from "avoid redundances at all cost is not always a good thing". The same reason we have classes in the first time, can also apply to classes of classes. Some class membership can be inferred by a query, I don't think it's always a bad idea to state the membership explicitely in all cases. 2014-06-11 11:21 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>: > Hoi, > A bot run by Amir has remedied many of the issues that resulted from an > import of data for the United States. The fix was to only point to one > level up and not have a reference to the state from every location. It is > implicitly there.. in the final analysis we do not need to know in what > country something is as it can be inferred. > > This system assumes that we build the upper layers as is relevant to a > specific country,. So yes it is usable for any country, type of > administrative or territorial entity including how for instance the Roman > Catholic church does its thing. > Thanks, > Gerard > > > On 11 June 2014 11:08, Thomas Douillard <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi, Gerard, I don't understand, As needed for what ? >> In your example it is enough to retrieve all the territorial entities a >> location is in. >> >> But let's say I want to get the administrative territorial organisation >> of France (Wikipedias probably ), I mean like "france is divided in >> regions, regions are divided in departments, and so on), for example, do we >> have enough in your model ? >> >> I propose to add to the classes like <French Region> for example an >> "instance of" claim that states <French Region> instance of <French >> administrative division type> to reflect that in Wikidata. >> >> Then if I want to know how france is administratively divided, I query >> all the instances in that class. >> >> This is a complement to <Pays de la Loire> instance of <French region> >> for example. >> >> >> >> 2014-06-11 10:37 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>: >> >> Hoi, >>> Important to recognise is that there can be as many layers as are >>> needed.. ie a roller coaster can be in a park, a park can be in a >>> settlement, a settlement in a municipality, a municipality in a county, a >>> county in a province, a province in a state and finally a state in a >>> country (that is on a continent)... >>> >>> This is how it effectively is already in Wikidata for many "locations" >>> Thanks, >>> Gerard >>> >>> >>> On 11 June 2014 09:48, Thomas Douillard <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, I basically proposed a two layers model in extended discussions : >>>> Administrative units | Administrative unit type | Administrative unit >>>> classes by country >>>> City Of London | City of the UK | Type of >>>> administrative unit of the UK >>>> Lorraine | French Region | Type of >>>> administrative unit of France >>>> >>>> Where going one step left in the table reads ''instance of''. This seem >>>> close to your ''helper item'' model. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2014-06-10 13:44 GMT+02:00 Markus Krötzsch < >>>> [email protected]>: >>>> >>>> On 10/06/14 11:11, Luca Martinelli wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We may possibly use an ad hoc item "City of United Kingdom", subclass >>>>>> of >>>>>> "city" and "UK administrative division", may we? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sure, that's possible. Maybe this is even necessary. I had suggested >>>>> to link to "city status in the UK" -- but there is no item "town status in >>>>> the UK" so one would need to have helper items there as well. If we need >>>>> new items in either case, the class-based modelling seems nicer since it >>>>> fits into the existing class hierarchy as you suggest. >>>>> >>>>> Markus >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> L. >>>>>> >>>>>> Il 10/giu/2014 10:21 "Markus Krötzsch" <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> ha scritto: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 07/06/14 00:40, Joe Filceolaire wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well they can ask..... >>>>>> >>>>>> As there is no real definition of what is a city and what the >>>>>> limits of >>>>>> each city are I'm not sure they will get a useful answer. The >>>>>> population >>>>>> of the "City of London" (Q23311), for instance, is only 7,375! >>>>>> Should we >>>>>> change it from 'instance of:city' to 'instance of:village'? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Side remark: in the UK, "city" and "town" are special legal >>>>>> statuses >>>>>> of settlements. This terminology is what "City of London" refers >>>>>> to. >>>>>> There is a clear and crisp definition for what this means, but it >>>>>> is >>>>>> not what we mean by our class "city" in Wikidata. In particular, >>>>>> this has no direct relationship to size: the largest UK "towns" >>>>>> have >>>>>> over 100k inhabitants. >>>>>> >>>>>> The class "city" is used for "relatively large and permanent human >>>>>> settlement[s]" [1], which does not say much (because the vagueness >>>>>> of "relatively"). Maybe we should even wonder if "city" is a good >>>>>> class to use in Wikidata. Saying that something has been awarded >>>>>> city status in the UK (Q1867820) has a clear meaning. Saying that >>>>>> something is a "human settlement" is also rather clear. But >>>>>> drawing >>>>>> the line between "village", "city" and "town" is quite tricky, and >>>>>> will probably never be done uniformly across the data. >>>>>> >>>>>> Conclusion: if you are looking for, say, human settlements with >>>>>> more >>>>>> than 100k inhabitants, then you should be searching for just that >>>>>> (which I think is basically what you also are saying below :-). >>>>>> >>>>>> Markus >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__City >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Even a basic query like 'people born in the Czech republic' >>>>>> has >>>>>> problems. Should it include people born in Czechoslovakia or >>>>>> the >>>>>> Austro-Hungarian provinces of Bohemia and Moravia? To exclude >>>>>> these the >>>>>> query needs to check not just if the 'place of birth' of an >>>>>> item >>>>>> is 'in >>>>>> the administrative entity:Czech Republic' today but whether >>>>>> that was >>>>>> true on the 'date of birth' of each of those people. >>>>>> >>>>>> This isn't to say that such queries are not useful. Just to >>>>>> point out >>>>>> that real world data is tricky. The cool thing is that we are >>>>>> going to >>>>>> have the data in Wikidata to make it theoretically feasible >>>>>> to drill >>>>>> down and get answers to these tricky questions. Once the data >>>>>> is >>>>>> there, >>>>>> open licensed for anyone to use, then it is just a matter of a >>>>>> letting >>>>>> loose a thousand PhDs to devise clever ways to query it. >>>>>> >>>>>> If we build it they will come! >>>>>> >>>>>> At least that is my understanding. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Jeroen De Dauw >>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>__>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey Yury, >>>>>> >>>>>> We are indeed planning to use the Ask query language for >>>>>> Wikidata. >>>>>> >>>>>> People will be able to define queries on dedicated query >>>>>> pages that >>>>>> contain a query entity. These query entities will >>>>>> represent >>>>>> things >>>>>> such as "The cities with highest population in Europe". >>>>>> People will >>>>>> then be able to access the result for those queries via >>>>>> the >>>>>> web API >>>>>> and be able to embed different views on them into wiki >>>>>> pages. These >>>>>> views will be much like SMW result formats, and we might >>>>>> indeed be >>>>>> able to share code between the two projects for that. >>>>>> >>>>>> This functionality is still some way off though. We still >>>>>> need to do >>>>>> a lot of work, such as creating a nice visual query >>>>>> builder. To >>>>>> already get something out to the users, we plan to >>>>>> enable more >>>>>> simple queries via the web API in the near future. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jeroen De Dauw - http://www.bn2vs.com >>>>>> Software craftsmanship advocate >>>>>> Evil software architect at Wikimedia Germany >>>>>> ~=[,,_,,]:3 >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> <mailto:Wikidata-l@lists.__wikimedia.org >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/__mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>>>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/__mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>>>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:Wikidata-l@lists. >>>>>> wikimedia.org> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/__mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > >
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