Gerard Do you want to delete sitelinks to wikipedia redirects or wikidata items which redirect to other items?
Joe On 17 Oct 2014 06:27, "Gerard Meijssen" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hoi, > If there is something like a hatmaker, it can have an item even when there > is no article in the English Wikipedia about it. > > When Mr Daniel Havell has no article, it still can have an item. It is up > to any Wikipedia to have an article about him or not. > > It does not mean that redirects are a good thing. Or that we should allow > for redirects in Wikidata in the first place. Any project decides what it > has articles for and what not. With urgency all the redirects that exist > should be deleted. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 16 October 2014 09:34, James Heald <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I am sorry, Gerard, you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what I >> am saying. >> >> To be clearer: >> >> * Noting that a link goes to a redirect is a feature of the *sitelink* >> not the item. >> * It is no more "Wikipedia centric" than noting that a link goes to a >> featured article in some language, or any other badge. >> >> I'm not proposing items be introduced for "new things that do not exist" >> >> >> Let's take an example, from Project Chat recently. >> >> * "Hatmaking" is a real-world concept that exists. We have an article on >> it in English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatmaking >> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q663375 >> >> * "Hatmaker" is a real-world concept that exists. We have an article >> on it on lots of Wikipedias. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q18199649 >> >> The two concepts are not the same. One is a skill, the other is an >> occupation. They have a P425 / P na relationship. >> >> It therefore would not make any sense to add "Hatmaking" as a label to >> the "Hatmaker" item. >> >> >> At the moment, there is no sitelink to :en: defined for "Hatmaker". >> >> What would make sense would be to sitelink to the redirect page >> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hatmaker&redirect=no >> with a badge, noting that this was a sitelink to a redirect page. >> >> >> At the moment, there is no sitelink to wikis other than :en: defined for >> "Hatmaking" >> >> What would make sense would be to create redirects on these wikis, >> linking to their articles on "Hatmaker", and then add sitelinks to the >> "Hatmaking" item, pointing to these redirects in each of the languages. >> >> >> >> To give another example: >> >> On Commons, we have a creator page for the engraver Daniel Havell, >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Creator:Daniel_Havell >> which ought to be made to draw from a Wikidata item for the engraver. >> (cf https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Creator/wrapper/test for >> tests) >> >> On en-wiki, there is no separate article for Daniel Havell. Instead >> there is a redirect, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ >> index.php?title=Daniel_Havell&redirect=no, which points to a section of >> an article on the Havell family: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Havell_family#Daniel_Havell >> >> Wikidata should have an item on Daniel Havell, which points to this >> redirect. >> >> That way, when the Creator template on Commons wants a link target on >> :enwiki, the Wikidata item can supply it. >> >> >> As I said, Gerard, I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. >> >> I hope it is clearer and makes more sense to you now. >> >> >> All best, >> >> James. >> >> >> >> >> On 16/10/2014 06:15, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >> >>> Hoi, >>> I seriously fail to see how an example how Wikidata can be abused is a >>> good >>> thing. Redirects are imho seriously stupid. They are utterly Wikipedia >>> centric and they introduce new things that do not exist. >>> >>> >>> - a redirect page to three pages is also called an disambiguation >>> page.. >>> We do support them. They are not redirects. >>> - when a redirect page refers to an article by another name, it only >>> takes a label to add the needed link to the subject >>> >>> Seriously WHY ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS? >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 14 October 2014 23:22, James Heald <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Creating sitelinks to redirects: >>>> >>>> As I understand it, the classic workaround for this is to >>>> * go to client wiki, >>>> * edit the page temporarily so that it is not a redirect >>>> * add a sitelink >>>> * edit the page again to turn it back into a redirect. >>>> >>>> Thus, at least as I understand it, there is no overwhelming technical >>>> barrier to creating a sitelink to a redirect. >>>> >>>> >>>> Looking back through the archives of Project Chat, it seems to be a >>>> perennial thing that we ought to permit sitelinks to redirects, eg most >>>> recently at >>>> >>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Should_ >>>> all_occupations_be_separate_items_from_their_skills.3F >>>> >>>> which led to Kaldari filing Bugzilla: 71859 >>>> >>>> >>>> But I'm not quite sure exactly what he wants solved, if sitelinks to >>>> redirects are /already/ possible. (Albeit requiring the slightly >>>> roundabout process above). >>>> >>>> >>>> Perhaps what is needed is just a concerted RfC, to confirm once and for >>>> all that it is indeed the community view that such sitelinks are useful, >>>> and should be created. >>>> >>>> >>>> But there are a couple of things it would be nice to have, to confirm >>>> the >>>> practice: >>>> * A badge (eg the letter R on a red disc) to indicate that the sitelink >>>> to language xx is linking to a redirect, not a primary article. >>>> * On an item, a new property "redirected to", taking another item as >>>> its >>>> object, and the identity of the wiki as a qualifier. >>>> >>>> >>>> After that, we should go out creating this redirects on client wikis en >>>> masse, and site-linking them. >>>> >>>> This would solve a huge number of issues we currently have, where wiki A >>>> has lots of little articles, whereas wiki B has the same content all in >>>> sections of one article; or where wiki A and wiki B have chosen >>>> different >>>> primary items for their treatment of a field. (For example: the >>>> profession >>>> 'hatmaker' or the activity 'hatmaking'). >>>> >>>> >>>> Allowing and encouraging sitelinks to redirect is the key to keeping a >>>> clean item structure on Wikidata, while still connecting readers to the >>>> most relevant pages in their preferred alternative languages. >>>> >>>> -- James. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 14/10/2014 21:00, Jane Darnell wrote: >>>> >>>> nope >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Smolenski Nikola <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Citiranje Jane Darnell <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) There is no way of making an interwikilink for a redirect, and the >>>>>>> German Wikipedia's "afrikanische Pflaume" is currently a redirect to >>>>>>> "Prunus" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> You should still be able to make an interwiki link for a redirect the >>>>>> old >>>>>> way, >>>>>> are you not? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > >
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