Hoi,
What is your point ? Converting code ... it is about functionality.
Functionality can be re-implemented. While we are waiting for that, we do
not have to wait. Why should we ? What is achieved in that way ??
We certainly do not need to be in denial that query was announced more than
a year ago and there is no point in guessing when it will work as well as
WDQ. When it will come close.
Thanks,
Gerard
On 1 January 2015 at 18:43, Sjoerd de Bruin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Sure: Reasonator is a great example, but converting the whole code is
> taking more time then making new stuff. You just can't intergrate it.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Sjoerd de Bruin
> [email protected]
>
> Op 30 dec. 2014, om 16:31 heeft Thomas Douillard <
> [email protected]> het volgende geschreven:
>
> At this step queries are planned
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan I guess
> placeholder articles are lower in Lydia's list, this seems only a
> preliminar steps.
>
> So it's not stupid to assume they will be ready.
>
>
>
> I read your blog a long time, including your posts about reasonator. I'm
> on this project for as long as you, I hope you know that. I just don't see
> your point, nor a clear answer. And I don't want to guess.
>
> 2014-12-30 15:59 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>:
>
>> Hoi,
>> Until Wikidata provides query functionality, any arguments about it are
>> without much merit. Until that time WDQ provides functionality. That
>> functionality can be implemented in new functionality when it arrives.
>>
>> As to the question if I know Reasonator ... Read my blog ... [1]
>> Thanks,
>> GerardM
>>
>> [1] http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com
>>
>> On 30 December 2014 at 14:08, Thomas Douillard <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> > Do you speak for the community ??
>>>
>>> Nope, I speak for myself. Nether told anything else.
>>>
>>> > Do you really know what Reasonator is about ?
>>>
>>> I don't really appreciate the tone, I think reasonator is really cool
>>> and I'm probably one of the people who pushed its use the most in Wikidata.
>>> Do you have a useful answer to your own question ?
>>>
>>> One point is that Reasonator uses Wikidata query, who, last time I
>>> checked, was not planned to be integrated into Wikibase. Wikibase will have
>>> its own query engine. It would be a giant software architecture mess if the
>>> core mediawiki/wikibase depends on external query engine.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-12-30 13:48 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>:
>>>
>>>> Hoi,
>>>> One of the requisites as mentioned on the page by Lydia is that it is
>>>> usable on any and all projects. Relying on local only technoloy like
>>>> templates do not make sense.
>>>>
>>>> Reasonator DOES provide functionality that is similar to what can be
>>>> achieved with templating. When a person has relatives, for instance it will
>>>> show. When something is in a particular location, it will show the
>>>> hierarchy. when there is a geo coordinate, it shows a map,
>>>>
>>>> Now citing "political reasons" begs the question since when our
>>>> community decides NOT to implement things that are so manifestly in line
>>>> what our mission.
>>>>
>>>> When you consider in build queries... That is what Reasonator offers
>>>> for a long long time.
>>>>
>>>> Do you really know what Reasonator is about ? Do you speak for the
>>>> community ??
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> GerardM
>>>>
>>>> On 30 December 2014 at 13:30, Thomas Douillard <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Gerard, I like Reasonator a lot, but there is several advantages to
>>>>> an integrated solution :
>>>>> * We can reuse technologies of the mediawiki ecosystem, like for
>>>>> example a very important one : templates, that are already used an that a
>>>>> lot of wikimedians knows. It can be used to build template articles. I
>>>>> don't know if reasonator atm had a lot of contributions. It needs a github
>>>>> or something account and Javascript knowledge.
>>>>> * community is reluctant to use not in wiki tools for such needs, it's
>>>>> politically hard to push Reasonator integration into Wikidata fundamental
>>>>> templates, I can tell.
>>>>> * A solution based on prebuilt queries to select the appropriate
>>>>> template seems not so hard to implement only with Wikibase concepts, and
>>>>> deeply integrated to the mediawiki ecosystem, integrate Reasonator will
>>>>> probably eventually not result into such result.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yes, Reasonator is usable right now. So it's cool that this
>>>>> feature is not implemented right now :) And reasonator can follow its own
>>>>> path.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2014-12-30 12:28 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>>> You also forget that it HAS been in use on several Wikipedias in the
>>>>>> past. So when that was no problem why is it a problem that can not be
>>>>>> overcome now and for now?
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> GerardM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 December 2014 at 12:15, Gerard Meijssen <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>>>> They are mostly excuses. The software has been in use for a LONG
>>>>>>> time. It is known for its relevance for the same long time.. So the
>>>>>>> value
>>>>>>> of this need is diminished by the lack of attention in the past.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point is that these excuses are very much in the way of us
>>>>>>> achieving our goal.. sharing in the sum of all knowledge. The knowledge
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Wikidata is available knowledge to us so we do not have a valid excuse.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> GerardM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 30 December 2014 at 11:38, Michał Łazowik <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen <
>>>>>>>> [email protected]> w dniu 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Reasonator works now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not
>>>>>>>> just including it there.
>>>>>>>> The whole code needs to be reviewed and there are some limitations,
>>>>>>>> especially
>>>>>>>> with 3rd party libraries. Bootstrap is a no-go. There are code
>>>>>>>> conventions, performance
>>>>>>>> and compatibility issues (mediawiki has to support IE 8) and
>>>>>>>> internationalisation. And
>>>>>>>> tests.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe some of these things are already there, but still the review
>>>>>>>> would have to be
>>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michał
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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