Lydia and Wikidatansl, If "the basic problem is that we do use items for the units," after developing a workaround for this, could Wikidata make an item out of the parts and sounds of every word (in Wiktionary) in every (Wikipedia) language, to begin, as part of a further translator plan?
Scott On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Info WorldUniversity < [email protected]> wrote: > How best to anticipate and plan here for ever more accurate translation > between Wikipedia / Wikidata languages with full STEM precision? What's the > road map? How might this "Unit Localization" Phabricator RFC > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86528 fit into a series of Phabricator > RFCs in a longer term plan for great Wikidata translation? Can we further > begin to lay out this "road map" at this stage for all of Wikipedia's 358 > languages (and anticipate even all 7,943 language entries in Glottolog)? > > Would it be possible to dovetail this with developing Wiktionary with > Content Translation as Phabricator RFCs? > > (WUaS which donated CC WUaS to CC Wikidata last autumn would like to help > develop such translation and for CC MIT OCW in 7 languages and CC Yale OYC, > for example, in addition to MediaWiki Content Translation). > > Scott > > On Jul 28, 2016 3:27 AM, "Lydia Pintscher" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Stas Malyshev <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Hi! >> > >> > Right now, quantities with units are displayed by attaching unit name to >> > the number. While it gives the idea of what is going on, it is somewhat >> > ungrammatical in English (83 kilgoramm, 185 centimetre, etc.) [1] and in >> > other languages - i.e. in Russian it's 83 килограмм, 185 сантиметр - >> > instead of the correct "83 килограмма", "185 сантиметров". For some >> > units, the norms are kind of tricky and fluid (e.g. see [2]), and they >> > are not even identical across all units in the same language, but the >> > common theme is that there are grammatical rules on how to do it and >> > we're ignoring them right now. >> > >> > I think we do have some means to grammatically display numbers - for >> > example, number of references is displayed correctly in English and >> > Russian. As I understand, it is done by using certain formats in message >> > strings, and these formats are supported in the code in Language >> > classes. So, I wonder if we should maybe have an (optional) property >> > that defines the same format for units? We could then reuse the same >> > code to display units in proper grammatical way. >> > >> > Alternatively, we could use short units display [3] - i.e. cm instead of >> > centimetre - and then plurals are not required. However, this relies on >> > units having short names, and for some units short names can be rather >> > obscure, and maybe in some language short names need grammatical forms >> > too. Given that we do not link unit names, it would be rather confusing >> > (btw, why don't we?). Some units may not have short forms at all. >> > >> > And the short names do not exactly match the languages - rather, they >> > usually match the script (i.e. Cyrillic, or Latin, or Hebrew) - and we >> > may not even have data on which language uses which script, in a useful >> > form. So using short forms is very tricky. >> > >> > Any other ideas on this topic? Do we have a ticket tracking this >> > somewhere? I looked but couldn't find it. >> > >> > [1] >> > >> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22082/are-units-in-english-singular-or-plural >> > [2] >> > >> https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B8:%D0%9E%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B9#.D0.A1.D0.BA.D0.BB.D0.BE.D0.BD.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B5_.D0.B5.D0.B4.D0.B8.D0.BD.D0.B8.D1.86_.D0.B8.D0.B7.D0.BC.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D1.8F >> > [3] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86528 >> >> The discussion about how to do this is happening in >> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86528 The basic problem is that we >> do use items for the units. I think this is the right thing to do but >> it does make this particular part a bit tricky. >> >> >> Cheers >> Lydia >> >> -- >> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher >> Product Manager for Wikidata >> >> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. >> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 >> 10963 Berlin >> www.wikimedia.de >> >> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. >> >> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg >> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das >> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > > -- - Scott MacLeod - Founder & President - Please donate to tax-exempt 501 (c) (3) - World University and School - via PayPal, or credit card, here - - http://worlduniversityandschool.org - or send checks to - 415 480 4577 - PO Box 442, (86 Ridgecrest Road), Canyon, CA 94516 - World University and School - like Wikipedia with best STEM-centric OpenCourseWare - incorporated as a nonprofit university and school in California, and is a U.S. 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt educational organization. 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