Really appreciate what you wrote here Markus. Thank you. After doing a bunch of digging around and collecting questions on the Discussion page of the proposed Grant, Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (Thank you!) provided two examples of roughly what I believe this might look like, which I am sharing here for anyone who hasn't seen it:
Person: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svend_Auken Company: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bispebjerg_Hospital Maybe I have comfort with editing template boxes, and assume this is a minimal barrier, but seeing the possible implementation answered much of my concerns. This does not seem to be a depreciation away from Wikipedia, I don't think, like Authority Control was. I still don't 100% understand how the interface is edited and wonder if marking the Wikidata page with icons to note the source (i.e., Infobox, Authority Control) but that might be overkill / unnecessary. (?) But from these examples I will definitely revise my Endorsement. Thanks again, - Erika *Erika Herzog* Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>* On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Markus Kroetzsch < [email protected]> wrote: > Mh. Is this actually leading anywhere? I can see both views, but there is > a danger that things are getting non-constructive here. A particular issue > in my view is playing the "Wikipedia-vs-Wikidata" card. I don't see things > in this way, and I hope most Wikipedia and Wikidata editors don't either. > > Of course there are different interfaces and different pitfalls for each > system. Let's face it: both are far from perfect when it comes to UI. > People use them because they are extremely important projects, in spite -- > not because -- of the UIs. I have also read about missing documentation on > how to do things. Again, I don't think either project really shines here. > There often is documentation if you know where to look, but if you just > come by the page and want to work, it is very difficult to find it. Things > could be much better. > > Therefore, any approach that looks only at current editors (who already > have made a lot of effort to wrap their heads around one of the > not-always-intuitive processes and interfaces) is necessarily too limited. > Their tolerance to the "other" UI will be as low as anybody's (ask someone > on the street how nice they find either template editing or Wikidata input > forms -- you'll get similar views). At the same time, current users often > have a kind of Stockholm syndrome towards the UI they are used to. We have > to take their views very serious, but we must not build our sites only for > the people who already use them now. > > The question therefore is not at all which of the current UIs is better, > but rather how both can be improved. For this list, this mainly leads to > the question how Wikidata can be improved. The practical insights gathered > with different editor groups around the world are useful here. The findings > need to be split into small, actionable units and prioritized. Then they > will be fixed. > > For this to work, it is completely irrelevant if more people like one UI > or more people like the other. Since the UIs are doing completely different > things, we won't be able to replace one by the other anyway. All we can do > is to improve on our side. For this reason, any "vs"-themed discussion can > only be harmful, attracting trolls who love to chime in whenever there is > critique, and frustrate contributors who would rather like to get things > done than to argue. > > As for the (little) project that started this discussion, I think it > should not be overrated in its scope. If people don't find the current UI > usable enough, they will not switch to use it until we have our processes > improved. But having other pieces of the puzzle in place will increase the > pressure on Wikidata to fix remaining pain points, and possibly do exactly > what Erika is asking for: make the voice of current Wikipedia editors > (even) more relevant to ongoing Wikidata development. > > Peace, > > Markus > > > > On 03.08.2016 19:24, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: > >> Brill Lyle, 03/08/2016 19:20: >> >>> I am not saying editing Wiki Markup on Wikidata. Is that what you are >>> describing? >>> >> >> No. >> >> Nemo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >
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