Really appreciate what you wrote here Markus. Thank you.

After doing a bunch of digging around and collecting questions on the
Discussion page of the proposed Grant, Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (Thank
you!) provided two examples of roughly what I believe this might look like,
which I am sharing here for anyone who hasn't seen it:

Person: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svend_Auken
Company: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bispebjerg_Hospital

Maybe I have comfort with editing template boxes, and assume this is a
minimal barrier, but seeing the possible implementation answered much of my
concerns. This does not seem to be a depreciation away from Wikipedia, I
don't think, like Authority Control was.

I still don't 100% understand how the interface is edited and wonder if
marking the Wikidata page with icons to note the source (i.e., Infobox,
Authority Control) but that might be overkill / unnecessary. (?) But from
these examples I will definitely revise my Endorsement.

Thanks again,

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Markus Kroetzsch <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Mh. Is this actually leading anywhere? I can see both views, but there is
> a danger that things are getting non-constructive here. A particular issue
> in my view is playing the "Wikipedia-vs-Wikidata" card. I don't see things
> in this way, and I hope most Wikipedia and Wikidata editors don't either.
>
> Of course there are different interfaces and different pitfalls for each
> system. Let's face it: both are far from perfect when it comes to UI.
> People use them because they are extremely important projects, in spite --
> not because -- of the UIs. I have also read about missing documentation on
> how to do things. Again, I don't think either project really shines here.
> There often is documentation if you know where to look, but if you just
> come by the page and want to work, it is very difficult to find it. Things
> could be much better.
>
> Therefore, any approach that looks only at current editors (who already
> have made a lot of effort to wrap their heads around one of the
> not-always-intuitive processes and interfaces) is necessarily too limited.
> Their tolerance to the "other" UI will be as low as anybody's (ask someone
> on the street how nice they find either template editing or Wikidata input
> forms -- you'll get similar views). At the same time, current users often
> have a kind of Stockholm syndrome towards the UI they are used to. We have
> to take their views very serious, but we must not build our sites only for
> the people who already use them now.
>
> The question therefore is not at all which of the current UIs is better,
> but rather how both can be improved. For this list, this mainly leads to
> the question how Wikidata can be improved. The practical insights gathered
> with different editor groups around the world are useful here. The findings
> need to be split into small, actionable units and prioritized. Then they
> will be fixed.
>
> For this to work, it is completely irrelevant if more people like one UI
> or more people like the other. Since the UIs are doing completely different
> things, we won't be able to replace one by the other anyway. All we can do
> is to improve on our side. For this reason, any "vs"-themed discussion can
> only be harmful, attracting trolls who love to chime in whenever there is
> critique, and frustrate contributors who would rather like to get things
> done than to argue.
>
> As for the (little) project that started this discussion, I think it
> should not be overrated in its scope. If people don't find the current UI
> usable enough, they will not switch to use it until we have our processes
> improved. But having other pieces of the puzzle in place will increase the
> pressure on Wikidata to fix remaining pain points, and possibly do exactly
> what Erika is asking for: make the voice of current Wikipedia editors
> (even) more relevant to ongoing Wikidata development.
>
> Peace,
>
> Markus
>
>
>
> On 03.08.2016 19:24, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
>
>> Brill Lyle, 03/08/2016 19:20:
>>
>>> I am not saying editing Wiki Markup on Wikidata. Is that what you are
>>> describing?
>>>
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Nemo
>>
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