You are right Dr. Wayne, Joshua has made and excellent proposal, let us try it first.
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Wayne Mackintosh <[email protected] > wrote: > Hi Josh, > > Nope -- we've not yet considered other third-party search solutions. Still > early days in the discussions. Keeping in line with the traditions of > releasing both early and frequently --- we also keep our ideas open and > prefer to chat openly about potential solutions before taking a decision > :-). > > To be honest, I had not thought about the SphinxSearch extension and I > think you make an excellent proposal -- that is to first try Sphinx search > technology. Clearly we would prefer an open source solution for the reasons > you outline. Moreover this would give us more flexibility to consider unique > or educationally specific search customisations that may be needed down the > track. > > The discussion list is a legacy decision. We used to run a phpBB forum and > the old list was spammed to death. Back in those days we didn't have the > human capacity to manage the spam problem properly :-(. In Jan 2007, when > WE had 285 registered accounts a community member set up the Google group > forum. > > Wow -- today we have 12,800 accounts. We've come long way. > > Josh thanks for the advice -- My sense is that we should trial the > SpinxSearch extension. > > Any other thoughts or suggestions? > > Cheers > Wayne > > > On 5 March 2010 05:03, Joshua Gay <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Wayne, >> >> Right now the choices being discussed seem to be either MediaWiki built in >> search or Google Search, right? I'm not sure if you've considered any other >> third-party search solutions, but, one promising (FOSS) candidate is the >> Sphinx Search Engine via the SphinxSearch MediaWiki Extension. This project >> is incorporating search options such as searching withing certain >> categories, selecting namespaces in advanced search, and other MW-specific >> customizations. Down the road these MediaWiki customizations might prove to >> be invaluable, since they will allow people with some sense of how WE is >> organized to be able to even more quickly and efficiently search the site. >> And, by supporting and using Sphinx Search Engine, you are increasing the >> likelihood that it will improve in this fashion over time. >> >> Here is a link to the Extension, >> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SphinxSearch >> >> They also link to a MW instance using SphinxSearch that is worth trying, >> here, http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Info:Main_Page >> Please note that at the bottom of the search results there are MW-specific >> advanced search options. >> >> My recommendation is that it is worth trying this extension and search >> engine, first, and then if that still seems to not be meeting the needs of >> WE users, then we you can compare how well Google Search performs. >> >> In response to Jan's comment, "[...] and we use googlegroups for having >> these discussions." >> >> That is true, but, it's important to realize that there are simple and >> powerful alternatives out there as well. I run several mailing lists and >> some of them are Google Groups, but others are using GNU Mailman. In my >> experience I find that Google does provide a simple and easy way to quickly >> set-up a mailing list without having to host anything myself. But, for any >> larger project I am running and when I already go through the trouble of >> maintaining a server and a back-up system, etc, then I go ahead and install >> my own GNU Mailman instance on that server. Once it is set-up, I find it as >> easy to use as Google Groups. But the real reason I use it is because it >> gives me the option to customize, configure, and control how I want my >> mailing-groups to integrate with my projects. For example, you can brand the >> sign-up page however you want and you can integrate the sign-up and >> configuration options directly into your web sites so that users don't have >> to leave your site to configure the mailing lists they belong to. One idea >> might be to create a MediaWiki extension that uses GNU Mailman -- this would >> allow mailing lists and mailing lists archives to be integrated directly >> into WikiEducator. Wouldn't it be nice in a discussion page to be able to >> refer to an archive page of the mailing list? It could be a beautiful >> workflow integration :-) >> >> -Josh >> >> On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 5:20 AM, Wayne Mackintosh < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> Apology for the long post -- but this is potentially an important policy >>> decision for the WikiEducator community. Since our inception, both >>> WikiEducator and the OER Foundation have subscribed to open philanthropy -- >>> where we discuss and take decisions transparently and collaboratively :-). >>> >>> We are thinking about improving our search capability by enabling the >>> Google Custom Search box on the WikiEducator site. At that same time we need >>> to think carefully about the conditions and possible policy implications for >>> WikiEducator. >>> >>> Today we've had a few discussions on our techie list on with reference to >>> improving our search features in WIkiEducator (See: >>> http://groups.google.co.nz/group/wikieducator-tech/browse_frm/thread/e33d2567a6cda18b). >>> Clearly the ability to search and find open content resources in >>> WIkiEducator is a priority for educators, and will increasingly become more >>> important as our project evolves. >>> >>> The current Mediawiki search capability is not the best search technology >>> in the world. (To be fair to -- "searching" is not the core business of >>> wiki developers.) IMHO, there is still no other open source wiki software >>> which remotely compares to the scalability and power of the Mediawiki >>> software engine and WE are proud to be a Mediawiki site :-). >>> >>> Technically it is relatively easy for us to implement the Google Custom >>> Search Service on WikiEducator. In short, this will mean we can utilise >>> Google search technology for the WIkiEducator site by inserting a Google >>> search box for using Google technology for searching the WikiEducator >>> website. This provides superior web search results when compared to our >>> current Mediawiki search capability. However, enabling the Google Custom >>> Search on WikiEducator may require a policy decision with reference to using >>> these kinds of ancillary webservices. WE need your advice and guidance. >>> >>> The substantive issue here is using a web service on the WIkiEducator >>> site which does not meet the requirements of the free cultural works >>> definition for an ancillary activity of the WikiEducator project, Our core >>> business is the creation, remix and reuse of OER which must always meet the >>> requirements of the free cultural works definition. This is non-negotiable >>> and a core value of our community. >>> >>> A few reflections: >>> >>> Speaking personally, I'm keen for us to seriously consider using the >>> Google Custom Search under clearly defined paramaters - I think this will >>> add value to WikIEducator without compromising our core values. So here are >>> the questions to think about: >>> >>> 1. Should we provide a Google Custom Search box on the WikiEducator >>> site for using Google search technology on the WIkiEducator site? Yes/No? >>> 2. Is the community comfortable with Google's terms of service most >>> notably the closed ownership of the search results and the use of closed >>> software to produce the search results? (Personally, I'm OK with this on >>> the >>> grounds that search results are not core content of the WE project --- >>> our >>> OERs must always comply with the free cultural works definition). See >>> Google's terms of service: http://www.google.com/cse/docs/tos.html . >>> 3. Regarding advertising -- our practice is not to permit >>> advertising on the WikiEducator site. So I'm pleased to see that Google >>> will >>> allow registered non-profits advert free results. In the event that >>> Google's >>> policy changes in this regard, we would need to reconsider the use of >>> Google >>> Custom search and discontinue the service if we are forced to display >>> text >>> adverts with the search results. >>> 4. With reference to our thoughts on advertising - -we are required >>> to use the Google branded search box. I think this is justifiable and >>> not necessarily an "advert" for Google. For example, the Mozilla >>> Foundation >>> allow the brand identities of the searchproviders to be displayed in >>> their >>> software. >>> >>> Please let us know your thoughts on these issues. In the event that we >>> decide to go with the Google Custom Search facility -- I propose that we >>> table a policy decision for the WIkiEducator Council with regards to >>> non-core services which may not meet all the requirements of the free >>> cultural works definition. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Wayne >>> >>> -- >>> Wayne Mackintosh, Ph.D. >>> Director, >>> International Centre for Open Education, >>> Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. >>> Board of Directors, OER Foundation. >>> Founder and Community Council Member, Wikieducator, www.wikieducator.org >>> Mobile +64 21 2436 380 >>> User Page: http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg >>> Skype: WGMNZ1 >>> Twitter: OERFoundation, Mackiwg >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "WikiEducator" group. >>> To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org >>> To visit the discussion forum: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> "Every time the word 'achievement' or 'academics' is used to mean test >> scores we cheapen the meaning of both terms." --Deborah Meier >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "WikiEducator" group. >> To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org >> To visit the discussion forum: >> http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> > > > > -- > Wayne Mackintosh, Ph.D. > Director, > International Centre for Open Education, > Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. > Board of Directors, OER Foundation. > Founder and Community Council Member, Wikieducator, www.wikieducator.org > Mobile +64 21 2436 380 > User Page: http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg > Skype: WGMNZ1 > Twitter: OERFoundation, Mackiwg > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > -- Warm regards Anil -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. 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