Hello, I am a bit concerned about the lack of image tagging - this sounds like it will be a problem for image sorting and categorizing. I understand that we all prefer the photos to be uploaded in September, but I also hope that we can properly administer the photos uploaded today. I think it's great to have those monuments coming in to commons with or without the contest rules; the main point is make sure they are properly tagged to their associated monument list so wikipedia editors can later find them to use them in articles.
Of course this may just be a startup problem, but let's please solve this issue for CH and the rest of Europe who may have a similar issue. Jane 2011/7/5 Lodewijk <[email protected]> > Hi Nico, > > thank you for your reply. Just to make sure we really are on one line: > > On point 2. we also discussed in depth the use of extra login layers - and > I strongly advise against that. Please keep in mind that most people don't > complain, but just give up - at least that is our experience from last year. > I heard several people who tried to use commons before, failed and just gave > up. They did use our simplified form and succeeded. > > On point 3., I was also meaning communicating within Switzerland. In the > end, the internet is open and wide - and things just get abroad. But also if > only the september images would participate european (only september is no > set in stone certainty yet) then it would be benificial and fair to those > participants to push them as much as possible to September. Of course you > could if you want suggest to them to make the images before then - and > upload them in september. > > Lodewijk > > > 2011/7/5 Manoillon <[email protected]> > >> Hi Lodewikk and thanks for this summary. >> >> Regarding your 3 points: >> >> 1. If you decide so, Swiss chapter will only present pictures uploaded in >> September to the European contest. This is absolutely not a problem for us >> >> 2. As soon as the simplifed form will be available, we will update our >> procedure to include it. So far, I didn't receive any complain on this >> topic, so we can continue like this until you are ready. Don't worry for us >> >> 3. To my best knowledge, the only advertizement done on the Swiss contest >> outside the country is... this mailing list. We don't plan any communication >> outside the country so it's only up to all of you close this topic and not >> heard about us anymore. >> >> I would only add a 4th point : there is still a lot of work till September >> for all of us. Therefore, I strongly suggest everybody to concentrate all >> our energy in usefull work to make the contest a success. >> >> With best regards, >> Nico >> >> >> >> 2011/7/5 Lodewijk <[email protected]> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> It is wonderful we finally have a good conversation about this. >>> >>> There are several reasons why we should have the same dates throughout >>> Europe - we discussed those both in Berlin and on this mailing list. I will >>> not bore anyone with them right now though, because it doesn't matter any >>> more. I'd love to have this discussion in depth, but let's do that elsewhere >>> (I would recommand though to read through the meeting minutes of Berlin). >>> >>> The current situation is simple: Wikimedia Switzerland decided (and I >>> still disagree with that strongly) to ignore the agreed timeframe - for >>> whatever reason. Since the contest is now already ongoing for them, it >>> doesn't matter much any more for the contest. >>> >>> Besides the time frame, there is the issue of the upload pipeline. This >>> is another topic we agreed on together - and also here there are very good >>> (and obvious) reasons: uploading should be as easy as possible. Right now, >>> the pipeline of WMCH required participants to register *both* on Wikimedia >>> Commons and on their website, to upload the images through the regular >>> Commons upload system, to manually tag them (not with any monument ID btw) >>> and thén to mark them through the contest website. This is totally different >>> from the intended and agreed pipeline, which is much more simple: Create an >>> account on Commons, use the special, simplified upload form - enter the >>> monument identifier and done. We will take care of the rest. >>> >>> There are a few things we need to resolve: >>> >>> 1. Which images are admissible for the European competition >>> 2. How can we simplify the uploading methods currently in place (which >>> are even more complicated than normal upload procedures.) >>> 3. How do we communicate this all >>> >>> For 1. I think that it doesn't help anyone to exclude images from >>> Switzerland. However, the monuments uploaded through commons currently lack >>> identifiers - as long as they miss those, they are not eligible. (But I >>> assume that can be fixed). An alternative could be to only accept images >>> uploaded between 1 and 30 september. Please note that it was already in the >>> plan that it wouldn't matter to us *when* the photo was taken, but only when >>> it was uploaded. I cannot make this decision by myself though. >>> >>> For 2. I think it would be best if WMCH would simplify their procedures >>> as much as possible. Not because we agreed, but because that improves >>> participation. There will become tooling available for easier uploading but >>> that will be become available at the agreed upon time schedule. We can't >>> speed this up for you. You could consider hacking together a form like WMNL >>> used last year to significantly simplify uploading. Please check the post >>> mortem 2010 for more information. >>> >>> For 3. I think it would help if we could consider July/August as a >>> "silent start" - trying to persuade your partners to not advertize it too >>> loudly until September 1. That way potential participants can enjoy the then >>> available tooling and more easy upload system. I know this is uncomfortable, >>> but I would really appreciate it if you could postpone publicizing as much >>> as possible until September. >>> >>> I hope that the hostile tone can be left behind - fights over >>> independence and agreements will help nobody. Let's try to reduce damage and >>> find a middle way. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Lodewijk >>> >>> >>> 2011/7/5 Ilario Valdelli <[email protected]> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 5:57 PM, GoEthe.wiki <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> > I think the point is: maybe it would also have advantages for other >>>> > countries to do the contest in different times, duration, etc., but we >>>> > decided as a group to have it simultaneously for logistic, promotional >>>> and >>>> > fairness reasons. >>>> >>>> And we have decided to have it in summer for the same reason. >>>> >>>> It's not a question of advantage, it's a question for a better >>>> logistic, a better promotion and a better fairness reason. >>>> >>>> The question is simple, If we had received a negative answer to Nico's >>>> question, surely we would sit down and discuss with the partners >>>> whether there was possible to participate. I can anticipate that the >>>> question was probably negative. >>>> >>>> The decision of the Swiss contest has been a shared decision not with >>>> the chapters, but with the partners, which are directly involved in >>>> this national organization. >>>> >>>> I agree that the European contest must be a decision taken by the >>>> chapters, but the National contest is a decision taken by the local >>>> chapter and the partners and they must decide the best solution to >>>> have a successful event. >>>> >>>> Now Switzerland in a middle of a dispute: to comply with the decision >>>> of the chapters or to comply with the decision of the partners. >>>> >>>> It seems to me honest to say that we would respect the decision of the >>>> partners for the Swiss contest because it is a local organization and >>>> the partners participate with their internal resources, we would >>>> respect the decision of the chapters for the European contest because >>>> it is a shared decision and there is no sense to have an independent >>>> decision. >>>> >>>> Ilario >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >
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