Hi Mina, I intentionally started a new thread to be able to have a more abstract discussion about the general policy. I would highly appreciate it if you won't bring it back to the single case.
Thank you. Lodewijk On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 11:48 AM Mina Theofilatou <[email protected]> wrote: > People: our movement is founded on TRANSPARENCY. Which is - sadly - > totally lacking in the Support and Safety Department. > > The Friendly Spaces policy supposedly protects Wikimedians against threat: > examples of such have been provided. Romaine's behaviour quite simply does > not fall under the "threat" category. > > I specifically requested in the previous thread that SuSa at least > explained to us what the "threat" was. Numerous Wikimedians from all over > the world who gathered in Cape Town expressed our support both online and > in person to a respected Wikimedian who is dedicated to the movement and > has offered so tremendously to Wikimania (the three I have attended, and > can thus refer to. From my point of view, Romaine is the ONLY volunteer I > can remember running around to make sure everything is running smoothly > since my first day in Mexico City). > > I am repeating my plea here: what is it that roughly 90% of the > participants - from the responses I have read and the support I witnessed > in person - that we don't get???? > > That said, I have personal experience of the shortcomings in the SuSa > dept. No need to go into details here. > > In closing, let me just say that I have connected the dots and I have a > pretty good idea of who complained and why this is being kept secret. > Elusive as this last statement may seem, it is no more elusive than James's > initial account of his decision on how to handle the incident (so please > James don't accuse me of speculating: you're the one who's leading me in > that direction. I am overwhelmed by your injustice against Romaine and if > you really are interested in resolving this issue and the bewilderment of > the community once and for all, it's quite easy: just be open about what > really happened) > > Romaine you have my unwavering support, regardless of the last word to > this incident. We need nice, warm, fun, hard-working and enthusiastic > people like you in the movement :) > > Best, > Mina > > On Sat, 28 Jul 2018, 21:52 Lodewijk, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I hope that the WMF Trust & Safety dept will soon some with a roadmap how >> to effectively evaluate this process with examples we can actually discuss >> without violating privacy. (I made some suggestions in person, but will >> leave it in their capable hands to take a long overdue leadership role in >> this conversation). >> >> My main concern is that I heard too many people ridiculing the friendly >> space policy in the past week - mostly people who would likely never >> violate it, but seemingly no longer feel empowered by it, feel no longer >> that it represents a best practice they should hold people to. Maybe the >> phrasing was never to the standards that they held, maybe it is a recent >> development. But it's high time to review things together with the wider >> community. If a policy like this is not supported broadly, I doubt it will >> ever be a success. >> >> Lodewijk >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 5:29 PM Deryck Chan <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I look forward to "hug me" / "don't touch me" stickers being issued next >>> year Q(^_^Q) >>> >>> Indeed we do "don't photograph me" stickers already so "personal space >>> needed" stickers sound like a natural extension. >>> >>> Deryck >>> (multicultural / "hug me") >>> >>> On 27 July 2018 at 15:31, Sam Oyeyele <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I believe the best way to avoid this kind of situation in the future, >>>> is to have tags specifically to indicate a need for personal space or >>>> something. >>>> >>>> From what I have read so far, Romaine has done nothing "out of the >>>> ordinary" (based on my cultural perspective); and he doesn't deserve this >>>> kind of treatment/sanction/punishment/etc. >>>> >>>> I should also state that I have met Romaine a couple of times, and he >>>> is indeed a very nice man, who always means the best. >>>> >>>> Sam. >>>> >>>> On 25 Jul 2018 16:41, Deryck Chan <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> This is the second time I remember that the Friendly Space Policy was >>>> invoked to remove a Wikimania attendee from a situation, presumably because >>>> of in-person misconduct on their part, where the removal was made public >>>> but the reason of removal was kept secret. >>>> >>>> The problem with such secretive invocations of Friendly Space is that >>>> it is very difficult, as Reem and others have pointed out, to not see this >>>> as a punishment. >>>> >>>> I understand that it is very difficult to balance the specific, >>>> personal sensitivities and cultural preferences of several hundred people >>>> from different cultures. But as this discussion has shown, it is >>>> counter-productive to use Friendly Space this way, because other >>>> Wikimaniacs are left worrying what the appropriate behaviour is supposed to >>>> be. >>>> >>>> I don't know the details of this incident because it wasn't public. But >>>> from what I know of Romaine from previous Wikimanias, I'm disappointed that >>>> this incident couldn't have been handled behind the scenes with T&S and the >>>> people involved. The fact that Romaine felt the need to go public about his >>>> removal as an organiser showed mis-handling of process. >>>> >>>> Well, actually the previous time was 6 years ago, so maybe we're doing >>>> well. We did try reforming the friendly space policy around 2013-14 but >>>> couldn't agree on something better at the time... The doors of improvement >>>> always stay open for the Wikimedia movement. >>>> >>>> --Deryck >>>> >>>> On 20 July 2018 at 11:28, James Alexander <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey all, >>>> >>>> I am, as always, sorry, that this has spilled out into the public >>>> sphere more I do not think that is ever a good thing as discussion of >>>> specific situations like this only serves to increase discomfort, make >>>> people feel even less safe and make victims of everyone. >>>> >>>> Event Safety and Friendly Spaces is a top priority of any conference >>>> whether big or small as well as one of the issues that can be most >>>> difficult to deal with since it is always a balance of situations, feelings >>>> and people who are frequently acting in good faith. I can confirm that >>>> Trust & Safety was involved here and, like most people who are working on >>>> Friendly Spaces, we never aim to take serious actions if we are able to >>>> avoid it. Most issues are dealt with by local attendees or organizing >>>> volunteers with only short reminders or chats and escalate from there only >>>> as things become more serious or repetitive. The same is true for T&S who >>>> generally doesn't even become involved until it is a larger situation. I >>>> will admit that whenever a local organizer or volunteer is involved the >>>> seriousness is increased some because they are, rightly or wrongly, seen as >>>> in a position of influence and power which amplifies any and all issues >>>> that arise. It does not, however, change the focus of trying to take the >>>> least amount of actions possible. >>>> >>>> I will be the first to admit (and did when talking to Romaine >>>> yesterday) that he has done an enormous amount of great work for events and >>>> nothing we did was meant to demean that even if it felt that way to >>>> Romaine. Like any Friendly Spaces actions nothing we did was meant as a >>>> punishment (even though, again, I understand it can feel that way) but was >>>> done because we felt they were the best thing to do for event safety. I can >>>> certainly guarantee that the decision was not taken lightly. >>>> >>>> As many have noted the entire story is not out in the open and, >>>> honestly, won't be. I know that won't make everyone happy but unfortunately >>>> is almost always going to be the case for specific cases. If you want to >>>> speak about process questions and the like, the team (including myself) is >>>> certainly willing to do so. We have a table on the 2nd floor or you can >>>> grab one of us around the conference. >>>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> *James Alexander* >>>> Manager, Trust & Safety (Operations) >>>> Wikimedia Foundation >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >
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