Certainly, once we pick a date and time, I can send a Google Meet link,
which allows up to 250 participants, so absolutely anyone is welcome to
join.

Thank you, Masssly, for that relevant recording!  I hadn't known about it.

   A.

Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)

Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org


On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 7:57 PM Mohammed Sadat Abdulai <[email protected]>
wrote:

> The deletion process can get quite complex, I know many folks get
> discouraged by it. My experience in the matter has been to avoid a
> defensive stance although the entity might be * clearly * notable.  It
> works sometimes for me :)
>
>
>
> Since this is obviously a matter many people struggle with, other folks
> are probably going to want to join the call too.
>
>
>
> @Justice Okai-Allotey <[email protected]> Might you be interested to
> organize something larger so Asaf can talk to the community at large.
>
>
>
> If this doesn’t happen, A+F recorded a session recently about “engaging in
> deletion discussion” that could be helpful to many:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Art_%2B_Feminism_Community_Hours_-_Deletion_Policy_on_Wikipedia._Presented_by_Melissa_Tamani_and_Mohammed_Sadat_Abdulai.webm
>
>
>
> -Masssly
>
>
>
> *From: *Asaf Bartov <[email protected]>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:47 PM
> *To: *Wikimedia Ghana User Group <[email protected]>
> *Subject: *Re: [Wikimedia-GH] Deletion of Article
>
>
>
> Okay, yes, let's separate these two issues, because they are actually
> quite distinct:
>
>
>
> 1. Notability is a yes/no question, which needs to be established (just
> once, for the entire lifetime of the article) using only reliable sources,
> dealing directly with the subject, but independent of the article subject.
> (This was also covered in the training in Ghana.)
>
>
>
> 2. NPOV, on the other hand, is *not* a yes/no question, but a general bar
> you have to meet *in each and every sentence of the article* (except inside
> quotations etc.), and that can rely on all sorts of sources and even no
> sources at all.  (e.g. "X is a Ghanaian singer" is perfectly *neutral* even
> without sources.  It won't be enough to establish *notability*, but those
> are separate questions.)
>
>
>
> I deliberately asked about NPOV, because I recognize that Notability is
> made tougher to establish for African subjects because of relative paucity
> of sources on the one hand, and possible bias on the other hand.  This
> person may or may not be notable -- I have no idea and haven't done
> research myself -- but it is concerning that your article was also found to
> be promotional.  The reason I am concerned is that *even though* the two
> questions are logically distinct and, properly, should be judged
> separately, in practice if a patroller sees an article with what they
> perceive as a blatantly promotional tone, they *would* be a lot more
> suspicious of the article's notability as well.
>
>
>
> So, you can obtain the article text via [[WP:UND]], and then we can
> perhaps schedule a call to rebiew it and have a discussion, and either fix
> it if it needs fixing, or learn from it if it can't be fixed and look for
> more notable subjects.  I am generally flexible these days, and am in the
> UTC+3 time zone.  Are there days/times that would be particularly
> convenient for you (plural, any of you who may be interested)?
>
>
>
>    A.
>
>
>
> *Asaf Bartov *(he/him/his)
>
> Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:13 PM Justice Okai-Allotey <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Asaf,
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have a save text of the article I wrote for Michael
> Aboya and no I wasn't paid to edit that article, I made a judgement of
> notability from what I saw about him online.
>
>
>
> Also, I made sure everything I wrote was from a neutral point of view, I
> sent it to a few experienced editors in our community to check my text if I
> had missed something and from the response, I got it wasn't promotional.
> For Michael Aboya I found so many articles from secondary sources speaking
> about him but it still got deleted because to those editors he should have
> done something major. He won a global photography competition so I thought
> that is something noteworthy to write about.
>
>
>
> I would be glad to get a refresher on NPOV but a lot of the times it has
> more to do with Notability and how to determine it within the several
> contexts.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Justice.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:57 PM Asaf Bartov <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> As the article has already been deleted, I can't see and judge for
> myself.  But there was mention of promotional language in the discussion
> about Michael Aboya, at least.  Was there indeed promotional language?  If
> so, how come?  I know for a fact you know how to write NPOV text, because I
> remember personally demonstrating it in Ghana, with you in the room.  Was
> indeed a paid editing job?  Did you not notice you were using non-NPOV
> language?
>
>
>
> (If it's the latter, I am happy to offer a call where we can go over this
> again -- perhaps even fix the article, if you have a saved copy -- to make
> sure future efforts of yours don't end up with text that is
> encyclopedically unacceptable.)
>
>
>
> I'm interested in helping resolve this.  Obviously, resolving this can't
> require breaking Wikipedia's rules, though.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
>    A.
>
>
>
> *Asaf Bartov *(he/him/his)
>
> Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:00 PM Justice Okai-Allotey <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I started a conversation on our Telegram chat group about getting my
> articles (User:Owula kpakpo) tagged for deletion by one editor (
> User:Versace1608 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Versace1608>) and
> other editors like (User:Kwamevaughan) also expressed same sentiments about
> getting articles his written tagged for deletion.
>
>
>
> In other to settle this and get a community response to such issues in the
> future and how we can settle issues of notability criteria within our
> contest as Ghanaians. Another volunteer (User:Enock4seth) asked that it be
> shared here so we can properly document such discussions for later.
>
>
>
> Find links to the various articles under scrutiny below. Also, feel free
> to add any further information to this discussion so we can properly deal
> with it moving forward.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Justice.
>
>
>
> [1]
>  
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bonah
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bonah>
>
> [2]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Ghana
>
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Camidoh
>
> [4]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Aboya
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Regards*
>
> *Justice Okai-Allotey*
>
> *Freelance Digital Marketer*
>
>
>
> Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970  Skype: okai_allotey
>
>
>
> |Avenger - Urithi Labs <https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/>|
>
> |Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group
> <https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/>|
>
> |Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/justice-okai-allotey-306b6354?trk=hp-identity-name>
>  | Facebook: Justice Okai-Allotey <https://www.facebook.com/wyzzlewany>
>  | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo <https://twitter.com/Owula_Kpakpo> |
>
> |Website: *https://about.me/okai-allotey <https://about.me/okai-allotey>*|
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Regards*
>
> *Justice Okai-Allotey*
>
> *Freelance Digital Marketer*
>
>
>
> Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970  Skype: okai_allotey
>
>
>
> |Avenger - Urithi Labs <https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/>|
>
> |Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group
> <https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/>|
>
> |Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/justice-okai-allotey-306b6354?trk=hp-identity-name>
>  | Facebook: Justice Okai-Allotey <https://www.facebook.com/wyzzlewany>
>  | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo <https://twitter.com/Owula_Kpakpo> |
>
> |Website: *https://about.me/okai-allotey <https://about.me/okai-allotey>*|
>
>
>
>
>
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