Certainly, once we pick a date and time, I can send a Google Meet link, which allows up to 250 participants, so absolutely anyone is welcome to join.
Thank you, Masssly, for that relevant recording! I hadn't known about it. A. Asaf Bartov (he/him/his) Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 7:57 PM Mohammed Sadat Abdulai <[email protected]> wrote: > The deletion process can get quite complex, I know many folks get > discouraged by it. My experience in the matter has been to avoid a > defensive stance although the entity might be * clearly * notable. It > works sometimes for me :) > > > > Since this is obviously a matter many people struggle with, other folks > are probably going to want to join the call too. > > > > @Justice Okai-Allotey <[email protected]> Might you be interested to > organize something larger so Asaf can talk to the community at large. > > > > If this doesn’t happen, A+F recorded a session recently about “engaging in > deletion discussion” that could be helpful to many: > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Art_%2B_Feminism_Community_Hours_-_Deletion_Policy_on_Wikipedia._Presented_by_Melissa_Tamani_and_Mohammed_Sadat_Abdulai.webm > > > > -Masssly > > > > *From: *Asaf Bartov <[email protected]> > *Sent: *Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:47 PM > *To: *Wikimedia Ghana User Group <[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [Wikimedia-GH] Deletion of Article > > > > Okay, yes, let's separate these two issues, because they are actually > quite distinct: > > > > 1. Notability is a yes/no question, which needs to be established (just > once, for the entire lifetime of the article) using only reliable sources, > dealing directly with the subject, but independent of the article subject. > (This was also covered in the training in Ghana.) > > > > 2. NPOV, on the other hand, is *not* a yes/no question, but a general bar > you have to meet *in each and every sentence of the article* (except inside > quotations etc.), and that can rely on all sorts of sources and even no > sources at all. (e.g. "X is a Ghanaian singer" is perfectly *neutral* even > without sources. It won't be enough to establish *notability*, but those > are separate questions.) > > > > I deliberately asked about NPOV, because I recognize that Notability is > made tougher to establish for African subjects because of relative paucity > of sources on the one hand, and possible bias on the other hand. This > person may or may not be notable -- I have no idea and haven't done > research myself -- but it is concerning that your article was also found to > be promotional. The reason I am concerned is that *even though* the two > questions are logically distinct and, properly, should be judged > separately, in practice if a patroller sees an article with what they > perceive as a blatantly promotional tone, they *would* be a lot more > suspicious of the article's notability as well. > > > > So, you can obtain the article text via [[WP:UND]], and then we can > perhaps schedule a call to rebiew it and have a discussion, and either fix > it if it needs fixing, or learn from it if it can't be fixed and look for > more notable subjects. I am generally flexible these days, and am in the > UTC+3 time zone. Are there days/times that would be particularly > convenient for you (plural, any of you who may be interested)? > > > > A. > > > > *Asaf Bartov *(he/him/his) > > Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the > sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! > > https://donate.wikimedia.org > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:13 PM Justice Okai-Allotey < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Asaf, > > > > Unfortunately, I don't have a save text of the article I wrote for Michael > Aboya and no I wasn't paid to edit that article, I made a judgement of > notability from what I saw about him online. > > > > Also, I made sure everything I wrote was from a neutral point of view, I > sent it to a few experienced editors in our community to check my text if I > had missed something and from the response, I got it wasn't promotional. > For Michael Aboya I found so many articles from secondary sources speaking > about him but it still got deleted because to those editors he should have > done something major. He won a global photography competition so I thought > that is something noteworthy to write about. > > > > I would be glad to get a refresher on NPOV but a lot of the times it has > more to do with Notability and how to determine it within the several > contexts. > > > > Regards, > > Justice. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:57 PM Asaf Bartov <[email protected]> wrote: > > As the article has already been deleted, I can't see and judge for > myself. But there was mention of promotional language in the discussion > about Michael Aboya, at least. Was there indeed promotional language? If > so, how come? I know for a fact you know how to write NPOV text, because I > remember personally demonstrating it in Ghana, with you in the room. Was > indeed a paid editing job? Did you not notice you were using non-NPOV > language? > > > > (If it's the latter, I am happy to offer a call where we can go over this > again -- perhaps even fix the article, if you have a saved copy -- to make > sure future efforts of yours don't end up with text that is > encyclopedically unacceptable.) > > > > I'm interested in helping resolve this. Obviously, resolving this can't > require breaking Wikipedia's rules, though. > > > > Cheers, > > > > A. > > > > *Asaf Bartov *(he/him/his) > > Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the > sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! > > https://donate.wikimedia.org > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:00 PM Justice Okai-Allotey < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I started a conversation on our Telegram chat group about getting my > articles (User:Owula kpakpo) tagged for deletion by one editor ( > User:Versace1608 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Versace1608>) and > other editors like (User:Kwamevaughan) also expressed same sentiments about > getting articles his written tagged for deletion. > > > > In other to settle this and get a community response to such issues in the > future and how we can settle issues of notability criteria within our > contest as Ghanaians. Another volunteer (User:Enock4seth) asked that it be > shared here so we can properly document such discussions for later. > > > > Find links to the various articles under scrutiny below. Also, feel free > to add any further information to this discussion so we can properly deal > with it moving forward. > > > > Regards, > > Justice. > > > > [1] > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bonah > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bonah> > > [2] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Ghana > > [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Camidoh > > [4] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Aboya > > > > -- > > *Regards* > > *Justice Okai-Allotey* > > *Freelance Digital Marketer* > > > > Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey > > > > |Avenger - Urithi Labs <https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/>| > > |Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group > <https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/>| > > |Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/justice-okai-allotey-306b6354?trk=hp-identity-name> > | Facebook: Justice Okai-Allotey <https://www.facebook.com/wyzzlewany> > | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo <https://twitter.com/Owula_Kpakpo> | > > |Website: *https://about.me/okai-allotey <https://about.me/okai-allotey>*| > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-GH mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-GH mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh > > > > > -- > > *Regards* > > *Justice Okai-Allotey* > > *Freelance Digital Marketer* > > > > Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey > > > > |Avenger - Urithi Labs <https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/>| > > |Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group > <https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/>| > > |Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/justice-okai-allotey-306b6354?trk=hp-identity-name> > | Facebook: Justice Okai-Allotey <https://www.facebook.com/wyzzlewany> > | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo <https://twitter.com/Owula_Kpakpo> | > > |Website: *https://about.me/okai-allotey <https://about.me/okai-allotey>*| > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-GH mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-GH mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh >
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