Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta [1]! So we can see what the community thinks about this.
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200 > From: romaine.w...@gmail.com > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org; wikilovesmonume...@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in > Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > Hi all, > > Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that it is > time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this situation. I > have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments organising > teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments in September, and > the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in > September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the Wikimedia > movement? > > To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this situation, I > have set up this Request for Comment: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner > > Romaine > > 2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>: > > > Hi all, > > > > New update: > > > > The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it resulted > > in: > > * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we will > > have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week. > > * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main Page of > > Wikipedia > > * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner > > * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors. > > * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social media > > fire > > > > They made clear this won't happen again. > > > > To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen again, what > > we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that the amount > > of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of the time. > > > > The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. Wiki Loves > > Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most visitors to > > Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a small > > link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I do not > > believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. A > > blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the largest > > project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not reach to the core > > people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, I have > > no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the core > > infrastructure is not under control by WMF. > > > > And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the fundraising > > banner to a month later... > > > > I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: afgescheept > > worden (literally: being shipped of). > > > > At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is large > > ruined by it. > > > > What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising team of > > WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many empty > > promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair > > negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more. > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by multiple > > people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do not really > > get it. > > > > I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from WMF who > > are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to explain what > > Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is the > > largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo contest in the > > world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so friendly to > > explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings. > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by multiple > > people, they do not really get it. > > > > Lessons to be learned: > > * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position for the > > movement, they have a target to make. > > * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have a lot of > > weight and use it. > > * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking banner) is a > > balanced, reasonable and well thought one. > > * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something. > > * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not impressed by > > those. > > * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at the > > same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your results. Yes you > > can, some chapters did and that was taken into account seriously. > > * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and even > > think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and feedback on the > > proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of experience in this > > matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses. > > > > But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking banner, let > > the community publicly decide what should be chosen. > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > > > 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <steinsplitter-w...@live.com > > >: > > > >> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts. > >> > >> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer first > >> should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for exactly zero > >> dollars per hour. It is all because of free knowledge and other stuff, but > >> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor important > >> than free knowledge. It is frustrating... > >> > >> Regards, > >> Steinsplitter > >> > >> > From: rupert.thur...@gmail.com > >> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200 > >> > To: janb...@wikimedia.org; patricio.lore...@gmail.com; > >> me.ly...@gmail.com; ubifri...@gmail.com; jmh...@gmail.com; > >> dar...@alk.edu.pl; denny.vrande...@kit.edu; jwa...@wikia.com; > >> s...@wikimedia.org > >> > CC: wikilovesmonume...@lists.wikimedia.org; > >> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments > >> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > >> > > >> > dear board, > >> > > >> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons to spoil > >> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF cannot > >> and > >> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there is a > >> simple > >> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined banner for > >> WLM > >> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is covered by > >> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the only > >> ones i > >> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space policy. if we > >> as > >> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than it is > >> better > >> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the rights to the > >> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the people > >> > doing some work. > >> > > >> > best, > >> > rupert > >> > > >> > > >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andre...@gmail.com > >> > > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hello everyone. > >> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the situation for > >> > > Wikimedia Italia. > >> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some important > >> > > points. > >> > > > >> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been contacted by > >> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who explained that > >> the > >> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising campaign in > >> Italy > >> > > in September. > >> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is > >> well-known to > >> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years. > >> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we discussed for > >> several > >> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR banners went > >> live > >> > > just for the last days. > >> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all September. > >> > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given the > >> history, > >> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and written > >> so in > >> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been negligible in > >> matters > >> > > of > >> > > communication. > >> > > We are not *happy* with the situation, > >> > > the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this appeared in > >> the > >> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few weeks > >> before > >> > > the beginning of WLM. > >> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in constructive > >> > > conversation and negotiation. > >> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: it's just > >> better > >> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just a few > >> days in > >> > > the middle of September. > >> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: this does > >> not > >> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening. > >> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate expected > >> results > >> > > for WLM in 2015. > >> > > > >> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a clear > >> negative > >> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of Wikimedia > >> Italia. > >> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants and > >> uploaded > >> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in front of our > >> > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ cultural > >> > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the Federation of > >> Italian > >> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council of > >> Museums), > >> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring Club > >> Italiano > >> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT spends > >> > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste money, but > >> > > because we have higher stakes. > >> > > > >> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international renowned > >> > > photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve McCurry ( > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco Fontana ( > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). > >> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians from the > >> > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law we are > >> > > fighting > >> > > as WMIT. > >> > > > >> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes beyond > >> being > >> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to create > >> > > relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking pictures of > >> monuments. > >> > > > >> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama". > >> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind of > >> monuments, > >> > > even if copyright has expired. > >> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For. > >> Every. > >> > > Monument. > >> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. There is no > >> > > official list of monuments in Italy. > >> > > > >> > > There is *extensive* documentation here: > >> > > > >> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_projects > >> > > > >> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM Italy stats: > >> > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it is the > >> reason > >> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics each. In > >> 2014 > >> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms of number > >> of > >> > > photos. > >> > > > >> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement. > >> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the Wikimedia > >> > > Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, also Wiki > >> Loves > >> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from other > >> sources). > >> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement: > >> but, for > >> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of the very > >> > > activities it is meant to support. > >> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon in a > >> small > >> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international > >> competition > >> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands of > >> pictures > >> > > to the Wikimedia projects. > >> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially when it > >> is > >> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors money to > >> build > >> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect for all > >> the > >> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their career > >> to the > >> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could also have a > >> > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. > >> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF fundraising > >> team > >> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to be > >> confident > >> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and that in > >> the > >> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and work more > >> > > collaboratively. > >> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation with WMF > >> and all > >> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar of all > >> the > >> > > Wikimedia movement. > >> > > > >> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and gave us > >> opinions > >> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere. > >> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and we would > >> like > >> > > to see it become wider and bigger. > >> > > > >> > > Andrea Zanni > >> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > >> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > >> , > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
