​Like most in western countries you'll find most of the WMF staff are
currently out of office so I wouldnt expect much back especially not
officially from them until after the 9th​ January.

On 2 January 2017 at 16:42, Jytdog at Wikipedia <jytdogte...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> This is something that people can natter over endlessly.
>
> The question is to the WMF board and management.  These are the people who
> can authorize action or not.  Anything else is just talk.
>
> Again - what discussions has the WMF had, at the corporate decision-making
> level, about taking legal action against companies that advertise WP
> editing services and that have no evidence of disclosure as required under
> the ToU?
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Good points, Gnangarra. I started to write out a reply before realizing
> > that maybe I would give ideas to our adversaries, so I'll wait here for
> > Legal to talk. Perhaps some of us can continue this conversation behind
> > closed doors.
> >
> > Pine
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I think it would be nice for a more direct input from the WMF over
> those
> > > not following the Terms of use.
> > >
> > > I see some potential pitfalls, even in chasing companies that charge
> for
> > > content;
> > >
> > >    - would this draw WMF into a legal editorial position
> > >    - would it drive them to further hide their activities
> > >    - what would damage would be done if a court says its ok for a
> > >    company/individual to control its image even on Wikipedia. we
> already
> > > deal
> > >    with the EUs right to vanish
> > >
> > > sometimes its better to not open the can.  I think a lot more
> discussion
> > > over the implications and impact is needed unfortunately some of that
> can
> > > only be behind closed doors it going to need community trust(something
> I
> > > think isnt all there at the moment),  before asking the WMF legal to
> > pick a
> > > fight with anyone.
> > >
> > > On 2 January 2017 at 08:52, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > (: I think that Legal could at least describe in general terms what
> > they
> > > > are currently doing and have plans to do in the near future.
> > > >
> > > > If it turns out that the answers are "we aren't doing much and we
> > aren't
> > > > planning to do more", then yes, asking the higher-ups to do something
> > > about
> > > > this sounds like a good idea. By the way, I think the timing for this
> > > > discussion is good, because WMF should be in the early stages of
> > > > formulating the 2017-2018 annual plan.
> > > >
> > > > Happy new year!
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Jytdog at Wikipedia <
> > > jytdogte...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Pine, thanks for your reply, but Legal will not do anything like
> this
> > > > > unless they are instructed by management.  That is why I directed
> my
> > > > > question to the board and management.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've asked at Jimbo's talk page (bad timing, archived over the
> > > holidays,
> > > > > will repost) and at Katherine's WP talk page.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am very interested to hear from the board and/or WMF management on
> > > this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jytdog
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:50:07 -0800
> > > > > > From: Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>,
> > > > > >         Wikimedia Legal <le...@wikimedia.org>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies
> > that
> > > > > >         offer paid editing services
> > > > > > Message-ID:
> > > > > >         <CAF=dyJhC8UqxkOY9FG9diGyobdgbbQaK_
> > > > +M=m9E5Bo3aysPAOw@mail.gmail.
> > > > > > com>
> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Forwarding to Legal. I'm aware of the general problem of
> > undisclosed
> > > > COI
> > > > > > editing, and agree that there should be some enforcement of this,
> > > > > > particularly given that WMF wants to use Wikipedia's NPOV and RS
> > > > policies
> > > > > > as part of WMF's marketing. I also wonder if WMF might be able to
> > > > recover
> > > > > > the costs of enforcement expenses somehow, perhaps by including a
> > > > > statement
> > > > > > in the TOS that says that people and their employers who engage
> in
> > > > > certain
> > > > > > types of undisclosed COI editing must (1) reimburse WMF for
> > attorney
> > > > > fees,
> > > > > > court fees, and other related costs of investigations and
> > > enforcement,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > (2) forfeit all revenue from their related activities to WMF. My
> > > guess
> > > > is
> > > > > > that significant financial penalties would be a bigger deterrent
> > than
> > > > > > name-and-shame and cease-and-desist letters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pine
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 03:50:03 -0500
> > > > > > From: Jytdog at Wikipedia <jytdogte...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies that
> > > offer
> > > > > >         paid    editing services
> > > > > > Message-ID:
> > > > > >         <CAAOzcj3cLaJOhvV6LvtqPTtULdj+
> 9Ccanmht7EJQVLv+Lqa=Ww@mail.
> > > > > > gmail.com>
> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am interested to learn if WMF management or the board has
> > discussed
> > > > > > taking legal action against companies that offer services to edit
> > > > > Wikipedia
> > > > > > and that have no on-Wiki presence disclosing their edits (in
> en-WP
> > at
> > > > > > least) per the Terms of Use.  We all know the companies and their
> > > > > websites,
> > > > > > where they use the Wikipedia name, etc.  I have looked and never
> > > found
> > > > > > disclosure by any of those companies in en-WP.  I have looked and
> > > found
> > > > > no
> > > > > > public evidence of WMF legal engaging with these companies, other
> > > than
> > > > > > Wiki-PR.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some en-Wiki editors recently identified a long-term paid editor
> > and
> > > > > > brought the matter to ANI:  thread is here
> > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:
> > > > > > Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=757170150#
> > > > > > Earflaps_-_accusations_of_being_an_undisclosed_paid_
> > > > > > editor_and_a_sock_puppet>.
> > > > > > This brought this whole thing to mind, and is something I have
> been
> > > > > wanting
> > > > > > to ask about.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Three questions:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Has this been discussed, and if so, what has/have the outcomes
> > been?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, is there budget for WMF legal to take action against such
> > > > > companies?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If not, would you all please consider that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > GN.
> > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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-- 
GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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