Hi Rogol, Yes, to a point. But if we tried to have every discussion on this list that was categorized as "Organizational issues of the Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations", "Planning elections, polls and votes", and "Other Wikimedia-related issues", this list would be so flooded with traffic as to be nearly unusable. So discretion is advised in how many new topics one brings to this list.
If you ask my opinion of "is the TCoC now in force", the answer would be no, but I don't know that it's a wise use of time to ask that question on this list in present circumstances. If WMF decides to try to enforce the TCoC without an RfC on the whole document, then I think it would be fine to come back to this list for discussion. The way that you phrase your questions sometimes comes across to me as having an edge than is more confrontational than I think is necessary, and I am finding the tone to be a distraction from what is, I think, our mutual goal of trying to align WMF more with the community. Sometimes carrots work better than sticks. I have a long list of changes that I would like WMF to make, but cultural change is a long term process, and sometimes patience works better than demands. Pine On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, one of us is in the wrong place. I'm posting to the list described > as "Discussion list for *the Wikimedia community* and the larger network of > organizations [...] supporting its work." – my emphasis. It seems that > "This mailing list can, for example, be used for: [...] > > The initial planning phase of potential new Wikimedia projects and > initiatives > Organizational issues of the Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations, > others > Discussing the setup of local Wikimedia chapters > Developing and evaluating grant-making programs > Planning elections, polls and votes > Discussion of projects that don't already have a mailing list > Finding ways to raise funds > Other Wikimedia-related issues > > My post relates to items 1,2,5 and 8 on that list. > > "Rogol" > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org> > wrote: > > > This list is *a* community but it certainly does not constitute The > > Community™ nor are we the community affected by this code of conduct. > > > > I suggest raising this in venues appropriate to the particular community > in > > question, in this case the technical community. Before bringing this > topic > > here it would have been far more appropriate to raise your concerns on a > > more aligned mailing list such as wikitech-l. All of whom would be > affected > > by the code of conduct and who have been notified regularly about it. > > > > I also suggest you keep in mind that the technical community does have a > > higher percentage of staff members from many organisations in comparison > to > > the number of volunteers. Simply being staff members does not preclude > them > > from being a part of that community and does not preclude their ability > to > > participate in their own self-governance. > > > > It would be hypercritical of us if we as the wikimedia-l list were to > > parachute into the governance of a community relatively few of us are a > > part of. > > > > Seddon > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 5:30 PM, David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > This assumes the relevant Community is here now on this very list, > > > which is an extremely questionable assumption. As has been noted ad > > > nauseam already. At this point this thread appears hard to distinguish > > > from forum shopping. > > > > > > On 2 March 2017 at 17:16, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > I'm not asking Matt. I'm asking the Community – here, now, on this > > very > > > > list. > > > > > > > > "Rogol" > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Rogol, > > > >> > > > >> Please don't assume that Matt thinks that the TCoC is now in effect. > > Try > > > >> asking him, preferably on the relevant talk page. > > > >> > > > >> I'm well aware of the challenges with the TCoC, but let's not make > it > > > more > > > >> difficult than it is already, OK? > > > >> > > > >> Pine > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 11:31 PM, Rogol Domedonfors < > > > domedonf...@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > Matt Flaschen has declared the final amendment to the code of > > conduct > > > for > > > >> > Wikimedia technical spaces approved and although he has not said > so > > > >> > explicitly, I assume that his current position is that it is now > in > > > >> force. > > > >> > Even asuming that is correct, and previous consensus was against > > that, > > > >> andI > > > >> > there is still signficiant disagreement on this list, it can > hardly > > > have > > > >> > any practical effect until it is published. But first -- > > > >> > > > > >> > Does the Community accept that this Code of Conduct is now in > force? > > > >> > > > > >> > "Rogol" > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > unsubscribe> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Seddon > > > > *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)* > > *Wikimedia Foundation* > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
