Oral stories do adapt and change over time to suit the circumstances but
the under lying fact remain consistent as in the case of Ziko's story that
a King divided his realm amongst his sons thus forming the basis of the
regions, whether its 5,7,9 or some other figure its still the same. We were
once one group until an elder, respected, leader created multiple we are
separate groups yet we are all the same.  This same thing has occurred
regularly across europe as well even now borders are still shifting.

When recording intangible sources two things must remain consistent, we
need to record the voice that the story is being spoken for and recognise
that different voice will tell different stories because they have
different perspectives, just like "eyewitness" accounts.  The other thing
is to recognise that when recording these stories we aren't setting them in
stone creating or selecting a single definitive narrative.

   - example:
   https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Bulyit#Oral_Accounts


Whether we deal with oral sources within a stand alone project or within
the specific language wikipedia becomes irrelevant, if we want to include
Indigenous knowledge we have accept and work with the ways in which that
particular Indigenous knowledge is shared.

It will be project anyone can edit, because its just like the written
knowledge we now share and modify, because you have box doesn't mean it has
to be a cube.

On 5 October 2017 at 15:19, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess for the same reason we never managed to run a successful journal,
> despite talking about this for about ten years. This project would need to
> have infrastructure comparable with the infrastructure needed to run an
> academic publishing house - editors, referees etc, which at this point
> looks insurmountable. And it will not be a project anyone can edit, which
> is a new entity in a Wikimedia universe.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
> > I agree that is the current situation, but why should we not have such a
> > project (in theory - in practice I could list several obstacles, possibly
> > surmountable)
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 9:54 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Strategy] September 28: Strategy update -
> > Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)
> >
> > Yes, but if oral tradition is recorded at the academic standard, why
> > should we be the first publication venue? Usually these people just
> publish
> > books in academic publishing houses.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:51 PM, Peter Southwood <
> > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >
> > > There may be a way to do it on another project designed for the
> > > purpose, but that cannot be English Wikipedia, and I doubt that any
> > > project that allows anonymous editing could manage it credibly. Oral
> > > tradition would at least have to be sourced to the teller, and would
> > > have to be recorded by a reliable and identified recorder, who can be
> > > held responsible for their due diligence. This would not be an easy
> > > thing for a crowdsourced project, but anything less would be like a
> > magnet for everything we don't want.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Chandres Wikipedia
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 04 October 2017 9:25 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Strategy] September 28: Strategy update -
> > > Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)
> > >
> > > I do not have a perfect solution to introduce oral traditions in
> > > Wikipedia today, but I’m convince that we need to find a way to do it.
> > >
> > > Just to give you an illustration:
> > >
> > > Today ,a significative amount of African topics in the Wikipedia in
> > > French rely only on the work of only few French historian. Without
> > > saying they are not honest, I find difficult to consider that there
> > > words have really so more value than the words of the Ancient of the
> > African tribes.
> > >
> > > We know for sure than oral tradition will include bias, but do not
> > > forget that the «  traditional western historian work » are not exempt
> > of bias too.
> > >
> > > Charles
> > >
> > > PS: IMHO, I find offensive the way you define oral traditions, but it
> > > may be caused by a misconception from my part.
> > >
> > > These are the definition I use for urban legend and oral tradition,
> > > very different each other I think.
> > > urban <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/urban#English> legend <
> > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/legend#English> (plural urban legends <
> > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/urban_legends#English>)
> > > A widely circulated story <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/story> that
> > > is untrue <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/untrue> or apocryphal <
> > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/apocryphal>, often having elements of
> > > humour <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/humour> or horror <
> > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/horror>.
> > > oral <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oral#English> tradition <
> > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tradition#English> (countable <
> > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#countable> and
> > > uncountable
> > > <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#uncountable>,
> > > plural oral traditions <https://en.wiktionary.org/
> > > wiki/oral_traditions#English>)
> > > Cultural <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/culture> material transmitted
> > > < https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transmit> orally from one generation
> > > < https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/generation> to another.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Le 4 oct. 2017 à 21:11, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> a écrit
> :
> > > >
> > > > You might be right, and the goal is indeed to differentiate between
> > > > them. I just do not see how it could be implemented in practice. A
> > > > legend is a legend, be it urban or not.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Yaroslav
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:09 PM, Chandres Wikipedia
> > > > <chandres...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>> to Wikipedia. They might still be a separate WMF project, which is
> > > >>> likely to be problematic (since it is really difficult to
> > > >>> differentiate between say folk tales and the oral traditions which
> > > >>> state that Earth is flat and that all US presidents report to the
> > > >>> Zionist Occupational Government),
> > > >> but
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> For me, your definition of oral tradition is the one of « urban
> > > >> legend
> > > ».
> > > >> TO my understanding, oral tradition refer to culture where the
> > > >> History of the tribes/nation/people is transmit only by a spoken
> > > >> way and never put on paper.  Am I wrong?
> > > >>
> > > >> charles
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
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