On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:54 AM, Denny Vrandečić <vrande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gnom1 on Phabricator has offered to actually answer legal questions, but we > need to come up with the questions that we want to ask. > > In the Phabricator discussion, Denny and others spent some considerable effort to come up with the following questions (I am quoting below from Denny's last post on Phabricator, dated May 26th): ---o0o--- Denny wrote on Phabricator: So, given the discussion as it has been going, I hope that the following questions sound good to everyone: 1. Can you comment on the practice of having processes that in bulk extract facts from Wikipedia articles, which are published under CC-BY-SA, and store the results in Wikidata, where they are published under CC-0? 1. Particular sets of facts we are interested in to consider would be: a) interwiki links, b) facts extracted from infobox templates, c) facts extracted from prose through natural language processing. 1. What, if anything, may be imported from ODBL licensed databases like OSM into Wikidata, and republished under CC-0? If I don't hear back by the mid of the next week, I'm going to raise these as the questions we would kindly ask to be answered. ---o0o--- Given that more than a month has passed, have these questions actually been answered? > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:15 PM Rob Speer <r...@luminoso.com> wrote: > > > > As always, copyright is predatory. As we can prove that copyright is > the > > enemy of science and knowledge > > > > Well, this kind of gets to the heart of the issue, doesn't it. > > > > I support the Creative Commons license, including the share-alike term, > > which requires copyright in order to work, and I've contributed to > multiple > > Wikimedia projects with the understanding that my work would be protected > > by CC-By-SA. > > > > Wikidata is engaged in a project-wide act of disobedience against > CC-By-SA. > > I would say that GerardM has provided an excellent summary of the > attitude > > toward Creative Commons that I've encountered on Wikidata: "it's holding > us > > back", "it's the enemy", "you can't copyright knowledge", "you can't make > > us follow it", etc. > > > > The result of this, by the way, is that commercial entities sell modified > > versions of Wikidata with impunity. It undermines the terms of other > > resources such as DBPedia, which also contains facts extracted from > > Wikipedia and respects its Share-Alike terms. Why would anyone use > DBPedia > > and have to agree to share alike, when they can get similar data from > > Wikidata which promises them it's CC-0? > > > > On Wed, 16 May 2018 at 21:43 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hoi, > > > Thank you for the overly broad misrepresentation. As always, copyright > is > > > predatory. As we can prove that copyright is the enemy of science and > > > knowledge we should not be upset that *copyright *is abused we should > > > welcome it as it proves the point. Also when we use texts from > everywhere > > > and rephrase it in Wikipedia articles "we" are not lily white either. > > > > > > In "them old days" generally we felt that when people would use > > Wikipedia, > > > it would only serve our purpose; share the sum of all knowledge. I > still > > > feel really good about that. And, it has been shown that what we do; > > > maintain / curate / update that data that it is not easily given to do > as > > > well as "we" do it. > > > > > > When we are to be more precise with our copyright, there are a few > things > > > we could do to make copyright more transparent. When data is to be > > uploaded > > > (Commons / Wikipedia or Wikidata) we should use a user that is OWNED > and > > > operated by the copyright holder. The operation may be by proxy and as > a > > > consequence there is no longer a question about copyright as the > > copyright > > > holder can do as we wants. This makes any future noises just that, > > > annoying. > > > > > > As to copyright on Wikidata, when you consider copyright using data > from > > > Wikipedia. The question is: "What Wikipedia" I have copied a lot of > data > > > from several Wikipedias and believe me, from a quality point of view > > there > > > is much to be gained by using Wikidata as an instrument for good > because > > it > > > is really strong in identifying friends and false friends. It is > superior > > > as a tool for disambiguation. > > > > > > About the copyright on data, the overriding question with data is: do > you > > > copy data wholesale in Wikidata. That is what a database copyright is > > > about. As I wrote on my blog [1], the best data to include is data that > > is > > > corroborated by the fact that it is present in multiple sources. This > > > negates the notion of a single source, it also underscores that much of > > the > > > data everywhere is replicated a lot. It also underscores, again, the > > notion > > > that data that is only present in single sources is what needs > attention. > > > It needs tender loving care, it needs other sources to establish > > > credentials. That is in its own right what makes any claim of copyright > > > moot. It is in this process that it becomes a "creative" process > negating > > > the copyright held on databases. > > > > > > I welcome the attention that is given to copyright in Wikidata. However > > our > > > attention to copyright is predatory in two ways. It is how can we get > > > around existing copyright and how can we protect our own. As argued, > > > Wikidata shines when it is used for what it is intended to be; the > place > > > that brings data, of Wikipedias first and elsewhere second, together to > > be > > > used as a repository of quality, open and linked data. > > > Thanks, > > > GerardM > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2018/05/wikidata- > copyright-and-linked-data.html > > > > > > On 11 May 2018 at 23:10, Rob Speer <r...@luminoso.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Wow, thanks for the heads up. When I was getting upset about projects > > > that > > > > change the license on Wikimedia content and commercialize it, I had > no > > > idea > > > > that Wikidata was providing them the cover to do so. The Creative > > Commons > > > > violation is coming from inside the house! > > > > > > > > On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 03:48 mathieu stumpf guntz < > > > > psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > > > > > > > There is a phabricator ticket on Solve legal uncertainty of > Wikidata > > > > > <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728> that you might be > > > interested > > > > > to look at and participate in. > > > > > > > > > > As Denny suggested in the ticket to give it more visibility through > > the > > > > > discussion on the Wikidata chat > > > > > < > > > > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat# > > > > Importing_datasets_under_incompatible_licenses>, > > > > > > > > > > I thought it was interesting to highlight it a bit more. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
