I would like to not limit the discussion to interwiki links; it also
applies to Wikipedia infoboxes and Wiktionary tables, for example.

On Thu, 17 May 2018 at 20:55 Denny Vrandečić <vrande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rob Speer wrote:
> > The result of this, by the way, is that commercial entities sell modified
> > versions of Wikidata with impunity. It undermines the terms of other
> > resources such as DBPedia, which also contains facts extracted from
> > Wikipedia and respects its Share-Alike terms. Why would anyone use
> DBPedia
> > and have to agree to share alike, when they can get similar data from
> > Wikidata which promises them it's CC-0?
>
> The comparison to DBpedia is interesting: the terms for DBpedia state
> "Attribution in this case means keep DBpedia URIs visible and active
> through at least one (preferably all) of @href, <link />, or "Link:". If
> live links are impossible (e.g., when printed on paper), a textual
> blurb-based attribution is acceptable."
> http://wiki.dbpedia.org/terms-imprint
>
> So according to these terms, when someone displays data from DBpedia, it is
> entirely sufficient to attribute DBpedia.
>
> What that means is that DBpedia follows exactly the same theory as
> Wikidata: it is OK to extract data from Wikipedia and republish it as your
> own dataset under your own copyright without requiring attribution to the
> original source of the extraction.
>
> (A bit more problematic might be the fact that DBpedia also republishes
> whole paragraphs of Text under these terms, but that's another story)
>
> My understanding is that all that Wikidata has extracted from Wikipedia is
> non-copyrightable in the first place and thus republishing it under a
> different license (or, as in the case of DBpedia for simple triples, with a
> different attribution) is legally sound.
>
> If there is disagreement with that, I would be interested which content
> exactly is considered to be under copyright and where license has not been
> followed on Wikidata.
>
> For completion: the discussion is going on in parallel on the Wikidata
> project chat and in Phabricator:
>
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4212728
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikipedia_and_other_Wikimedia_projects
>
>
> I would appreciate if we could keep the discussion in a single place.
>
> Gnom1 on Phabricator has offered to actually answer legal questions, but we
> need to come up with the questions that we want to ask. If it should be,
> for example, as Rob Speer states on the bug, "has the copyright of
> interwiki links been breached by having them be moved to Wikidata?", I'd be
> quite happy with that question - if that's the disagreement, let us ask
> Legal help and see if my understanding or yours is correct.
>
> Does this sound like a reasonable question? Or which other question would
> you like to ask instead?
>
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:15 PM Rob Speer <r...@luminoso.com> wrote:
>
> > > As always, copyright is predatory. As we can prove that copyright is
> the
> > enemy of science and knowledge
> >
> > Well, this kind of gets to the heart of the issue, doesn't it.
> >
> > I support the Creative Commons license, including the share-alike term,
> > which requires copyright in order to work, and I've contributed to
> multiple
> > Wikimedia projects with the understanding that my work would be protected
> > by CC-By-SA.
> >
> > Wikidata is engaged in a project-wide act of disobedience against
> CC-By-SA.
> > I would say that GerardM has provided an excellent summary of the
> attitude
> > toward Creative Commons that I've encountered on Wikidata: "it's holding
> us
> > back", "it's the enemy", "you can't copyright knowledge", "you can't make
> > us follow it", etc.
> >
> > The result of this, by the way, is that commercial entities sell modified
> > versions of Wikidata with impunity. It undermines the terms of other
> > resources such as DBPedia, which also contains facts extracted from
> > Wikipedia and respects its Share-Alike terms. Why would anyone use
> DBPedia
> > and have to agree to share alike, when they can get similar data from
> > Wikidata which promises them it's CC-0?
> >
> > On Wed, 16 May 2018 at 21:43 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > Thank you for the overly broad misrepresentation. As always, copyright
> is
> > > predatory. As we can prove that copyright is the enemy of science and
> > > knowledge we should not be upset that *copyright *is abused we should
> > > welcome it as it proves the point. Also when we use texts from
> everywhere
> > > and rephrase it in Wikipedia articles "we" are not lily white either.
> > >
> > > In "them old days" generally we felt that when people would use
> > Wikipedia,
> > > it would only serve our purpose; share the sum of all knowledge. I
> still
> > > feel really good about that. And, it has been shown that what we do;
> > > maintain / curate / update that data that it is not easily given to do
> as
> > > well as "we" do it.
> > >
> > > When we are to be more precise with our copyright, there are a few
> things
> > > we could do to make copyright more transparent. When data is to be
> > uploaded
> > > (Commons / Wikipedia or Wikidata) we should use a user that is OWNED
> and
> > > operated by the copyright holder. The operation may be by proxy and as
> a
> > > consequence there is no longer a question about copyright as the
> > copyright
> > > holder can do as we wants. This makes any future noises just that,
> > > annoying.
> > >
> > > As to copyright on Wikidata, when you consider copyright using data
> from
> > > Wikipedia. The question is: "What Wikipedia" I have copied a lot of
> data
> > > from several Wikipedias and believe me, from a quality point of view
> > there
> > > is much to be gained by using Wikidata as an instrument for good
> because
> > it
> > > is really strong in identifying friends and false friends. It is
> superior
> > > as a tool for disambiguation.
> > >
> > > About the copyright on data, the overriding question with data is: do
> you
> > > copy data wholesale in Wikidata. That is what a database copyright is
> > > about. As I wrote on my blog [1], the best data to include is data that
> > is
> > > corroborated by the fact that it is present in multiple sources. This
> > > negates the notion of a single source, it also underscores that much of
> > the
> > > data everywhere is replicated a lot. It also underscores, again, the
> > notion
> > > that data that is only present in single sources is what needs
> attention.
> > > It needs tender loving care, it needs other sources to establish
> > > credentials. That is in its own right what makes any claim of copyright
> > > moot. It is in this process that it becomes a "creative" process
> negating
> > > the copyright held on databases.
> > >
> > > I welcome the attention that is given to copyright in Wikidata. However
> > our
> > > attention to copyright is predatory in two ways. It is how can we get
> > > around existing copyright and how can we protect our own.  As argued,
> > > Wikidata shines when it is used for what it is intended to be; the
> place
> > > that brings data, of Wikipedias first and elsewhere second, together to
> > be
> > > used as a repository of quality, open and linked data.
> > > Thanks,
> > >        GerardM
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2018/05/wikidata-copyright-and-linked-data.html
> > >
> > > On 11 May 2018 at 23:10, Rob Speer <r...@luminoso.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wow, thanks for the heads up. When I was getting upset about projects
> > > that
> > > > change the license on Wikimedia content and commercialize it, I had
> no
> > > idea
> > > > that Wikidata was providing them the cover to do so. The Creative
> > Commons
> > > > violation is coming from inside the house!
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 03:48 mathieu stumpf guntz <
> > > > psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello everybody,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a phabricator ticket on Solve legal uncertainty of
> Wikidata
> > > > > <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728> that you might be
> > > interested
> > > > > to look at and participate in.
> > > > >
> > > > > As Denny suggested in the ticket to give it more visibility through
> > the
> > > > > discussion on the Wikidata chat
> > > > > <
> > > > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#
> > > > Importing_datasets_under_incompatible_licenses>,
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought it was interesting to highlight it a bit more.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > >
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