I would like to not limit the discussion to interwiki links; it also applies to Wikipedia infoboxes and Wiktionary tables, for example.
On Thu, 17 May 2018 at 20:55 Denny Vrandečić <vrande...@gmail.com> wrote: > Rob Speer wrote: > > The result of this, by the way, is that commercial entities sell modified > > versions of Wikidata with impunity. It undermines the terms of other > > resources such as DBPedia, which also contains facts extracted from > > Wikipedia and respects its Share-Alike terms. Why would anyone use > DBPedia > > and have to agree to share alike, when they can get similar data from > > Wikidata which promises them it's CC-0? > > The comparison to DBpedia is interesting: the terms for DBpedia state > "Attribution in this case means keep DBpedia URIs visible and active > through at least one (preferably all) of @href, <link />, or "Link:". If > live links are impossible (e.g., when printed on paper), a textual > blurb-based attribution is acceptable." > http://wiki.dbpedia.org/terms-imprint > > So according to these terms, when someone displays data from DBpedia, it is > entirely sufficient to attribute DBpedia. > > What that means is that DBpedia follows exactly the same theory as > Wikidata: it is OK to extract data from Wikipedia and republish it as your > own dataset under your own copyright without requiring attribution to the > original source of the extraction. > > (A bit more problematic might be the fact that DBpedia also republishes > whole paragraphs of Text under these terms, but that's another story) > > My understanding is that all that Wikidata has extracted from Wikipedia is > non-copyrightable in the first place and thus republishing it under a > different license (or, as in the case of DBpedia for simple triples, with a > different attribution) is legally sound. > > If there is disagreement with that, I would be interested which content > exactly is considered to be under copyright and where license has not been > followed on Wikidata. > > For completion: the discussion is going on in parallel on the Wikidata > project chat and in Phabricator: > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4212728 > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikipedia_and_other_Wikimedia_projects > > > I would appreciate if we could keep the discussion in a single place. > > Gnom1 on Phabricator has offered to actually answer legal questions, but we > need to come up with the questions that we want to ask. If it should be, > for example, as Rob Speer states on the bug, "has the copyright of > interwiki links been breached by having them be moved to Wikidata?", I'd be > quite happy with that question - if that's the disagreement, let us ask > Legal help and see if my understanding or yours is correct. > > Does this sound like a reasonable question? Or which other question would > you like to ask instead? > > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:15 PM Rob Speer <r...@luminoso.com> wrote: > > > > As always, copyright is predatory. As we can prove that copyright is > the > > enemy of science and knowledge > > > > Well, this kind of gets to the heart of the issue, doesn't it. > > > > I support the Creative Commons license, including the share-alike term, > > which requires copyright in order to work, and I've contributed to > multiple > > Wikimedia projects with the understanding that my work would be protected > > by CC-By-SA. > > > > Wikidata is engaged in a project-wide act of disobedience against > CC-By-SA. > > I would say that GerardM has provided an excellent summary of the > attitude > > toward Creative Commons that I've encountered on Wikidata: "it's holding > us > > back", "it's the enemy", "you can't copyright knowledge", "you can't make > > us follow it", etc. > > > > The result of this, by the way, is that commercial entities sell modified > > versions of Wikidata with impunity. It undermines the terms of other > > resources such as DBPedia, which also contains facts extracted from > > Wikipedia and respects its Share-Alike terms. Why would anyone use > DBPedia > > and have to agree to share alike, when they can get similar data from > > Wikidata which promises them it's CC-0? > > > > On Wed, 16 May 2018 at 21:43 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hoi, > > > Thank you for the overly broad misrepresentation. As always, copyright > is > > > predatory. As we can prove that copyright is the enemy of science and > > > knowledge we should not be upset that *copyright *is abused we should > > > welcome it as it proves the point. Also when we use texts from > everywhere > > > and rephrase it in Wikipedia articles "we" are not lily white either. > > > > > > In "them old days" generally we felt that when people would use > > Wikipedia, > > > it would only serve our purpose; share the sum of all knowledge. I > still > > > feel really good about that. And, it has been shown that what we do; > > > maintain / curate / update that data that it is not easily given to do > as > > > well as "we" do it. > > > > > > When we are to be more precise with our copyright, there are a few > things > > > we could do to make copyright more transparent. When data is to be > > uploaded > > > (Commons / Wikipedia or Wikidata) we should use a user that is OWNED > and > > > operated by the copyright holder. The operation may be by proxy and as > a > > > consequence there is no longer a question about copyright as the > > copyright > > > holder can do as we wants. This makes any future noises just that, > > > annoying. > > > > > > As to copyright on Wikidata, when you consider copyright using data > from > > > Wikipedia. The question is: "What Wikipedia" I have copied a lot of > data > > > from several Wikipedias and believe me, from a quality point of view > > there > > > is much to be gained by using Wikidata as an instrument for good > because > > it > > > is really strong in identifying friends and false friends. It is > superior > > > as a tool for disambiguation. > > > > > > About the copyright on data, the overriding question with data is: do > you > > > copy data wholesale in Wikidata. That is what a database copyright is > > > about. As I wrote on my blog [1], the best data to include is data that > > is > > > corroborated by the fact that it is present in multiple sources. This > > > negates the notion of a single source, it also underscores that much of > > the > > > data everywhere is replicated a lot. It also underscores, again, the > > notion > > > that data that is only present in single sources is what needs > attention. > > > It needs tender loving care, it needs other sources to establish > > > credentials. That is in its own right what makes any claim of copyright > > > moot. It is in this process that it becomes a "creative" process > negating > > > the copyright held on databases. > > > > > > I welcome the attention that is given to copyright in Wikidata. However > > our > > > attention to copyright is predatory in two ways. It is how can we get > > > around existing copyright and how can we protect our own. As argued, > > > Wikidata shines when it is used for what it is intended to be; the > place > > > that brings data, of Wikipedias first and elsewhere second, together to > > be > > > used as a repository of quality, open and linked data. > > > Thanks, > > > GerardM > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2018/05/wikidata-copyright-and-linked-data.html > > > > > > On 11 May 2018 at 23:10, Rob Speer <r...@luminoso.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Wow, thanks for the heads up. When I was getting upset about projects > > > that > > > > change the license on Wikimedia content and commercialize it, I had > no > > > idea > > > > that Wikidata was providing them the cover to do so. The Creative > > Commons > > > > violation is coming from inside the house! > > > > > > > > On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 03:48 mathieu stumpf guntz < > > > > psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > > > > > > > There is a phabricator ticket on Solve legal uncertainty of > Wikidata > > > > > <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728> that you might be > > > interested > > > > > to look at and participate in. > > > > > > > > > > As Denny suggested in the ticket to give it more visibility through > > the > > > > > discussion on the Wikidata chat > > > > > < > > > > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat# > > > > Importing_datasets_under_incompatible_licenses>, > > > > > > > > > > I thought it was interesting to highlight it a bit more. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
