Hoi,
Benjamin is it fair to expect that you are a Wikipedian first and a
Wikimedian second? The problem with perception is that it differs from
where you stand. One of the easiest things to solve on all the Wikipedias
are false friends but hey I stand with data and the Wikipedia perception is
that it is not much of a problem (statistically it is).

When people write scientific papers about Wikipedia, English Wikipedia is
to be included on penalty of not finding a publisher (a quote from a Dutch
professor at a Wikimedia conference).  When the last resort for keeping
images on Commons, OTRS, has a not so public policy where for images to be
accepted the English Wikipedia notability policy is expected. What does it
take for you to alter your perception. What does it take for us to
understand how big this bias is and how insidious its effects are?

Perception, opinions provides the worst guidance because they allow you to
deny the facts that are in front of you.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 09:32, Benjamin Lees <emufarm...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Like Peter, I do not see a clear connection to the proposed rebranding.
> Threads of this sort would be more constructive if they were framed in a
> way that does not unnecessarily tie in every other issue one might have
> with the movement, and that does not imply that anybody with a different
> perspective must be evil or incompetent.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:06 PM Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >    - it must not say the use is to, for, or on Wikipedia
> >
> >
>
> A file must not say it is *exclusively* for the use of Wikipedia, because
> such a condition is incompatible with the license we demand.  And there
> must be an actual license--"Wikipedia can use my picture" is the classic
> submission that requires us to ask for a proper licensing declaration.  But
> there is certainly no problem if somebody submits a file for the *purpose*
> of use on Wikipedia.  That is one of the most common motivations for
> submitting files.
>
>
>
> > Commons has fallen behind when it comes to the capability of taking
> photos
> > of ones self (selfies) the default position when Commons started was that
> > taking a high quality photograph of yourself wasnt possible there must
> have
> > been someone else pushing the button. What happens is Commons asks for
> the
> > subject to obtain permission from the photographer and submit that to
> OTRS,
> > the systems falls over because the photographer cant prove that the photo
> > they took of themselves was taken by themselves because the underlying
> > assumption is that that isnt possible.
> >
>
> It does appear to be standard practice to ask who took a photograph,
> because in a great many cases, it was not the person submitting the file,
> and many people do not realize that the photographer, rather than the
> subject, owns the copyright. (As Gerard says, "understanding of copyright
> and licensing is dim".) I don't think anybody treats "the picture looks
> good" as creating an irrebuttable presumption that it is not a selfie, but
> different users do have different views of how not-a-selfie-looking a given
> file is and of how much verification should be performed more generally.
>
>
> OTRS permission behaves as expected because there is a very narrow
> > definition of whats acceptable, anything that doesnt fit gets rejected.
> The
> > very real need to be pro-active in ensuring the permissions queue doesnt
> > get overwhelmed and backlogged  contributes to the fact that the grey is
> > treated as black -- close it, delete it, move on.
> >
>
> My impression is that most agents go to reasonable (and sometimes
> excessive) lengths to give people submitting files a chance to show that
> they have the rights to do so.
>
> Emufarmers
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