Wikipedia has been a third tier social media platform since its inception. Luckily we are better known for being an encyclopedia.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM Dan Szymborski <dszymbor...@gmail.com> wrote: > I am absolutely flabbergasted that a generic reference of an organization > to flatulence, something we see in rated-G television isn't considered > "collegial" enough yet the actions that the WMF has taken over the last 18 > months, many of which were pushed by people on this list *are* considered > collegial. > > If a joke that would be appropriate for a four-year-old leads to special > moderation, what action ought be taken for someone on the list pushing the > failure of a collaborative process that WMF is foisting upon the community? > One of the people "doth protesting too much" about the reference is also > someone banned from English Wikipedia for a whole litany of *actual* things > that took up countless hours of community time, including making legal > threats based on finding offense in normal Wikipedia actions. > > I am a longtime, accredited journalist, possibly even slightly respected in > the field -- though there's always that risk of Dunning-Kruger -- who has > written for a ton of outlets and there's not an editor in the world that > I've worked with who would've asked me to change the *very* gentle wording. > If anything, I was too mild. *I'm* grossly offended by the WMF's actions > over the last 18 months. *I'm* grossly offended by the perversion of a free > information movement being converted into a third-tier social media app. > *I'm* grossly offended by board policies that empower the vested, the > connected, the politically adept to judge the weak and the voiceless. *I'm* > grossly offended by the people here who cheerfully announce the board > arbitrarily changing board terms or that the community has no actual say in > what the *community* (not the board) built. The Wiki movement is far bigger > than the WMF; which is a good thing because I can't imagine it being > smaller than the board's self-dealing petty bourgeoisie affair. > > No, I didn't mean petit. > > Yet I don't call for anyone to be silenced because, well, disagreeing > vigorously is what adults are able to do. > > It matters not if this message is censored by the list overlords. One of > the few benefits of being a journalist is that combination of > self-righteousness and having myriad ways to prevent an opinion from being > suppressed on dubious grounds. > > Cheers, > > Dan > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:55 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > A code of conduct id something many of us have asked the WMF to write for > > many years. We are asking the WMF to take an active part in stopping > > abusive behaviors in our community. > > > > On fr wiki, many admins say they are tired of conflicts and that they did > > not enroll to deal with them. A code of conduct could help then take > action > > because it offers a frame. > > > > This is COMPLETELY different with the branding process. > > > > We are one of the few projects in the open source world without a code of > > conduct. > > > > So thank you for this draft, thank you for opening up for discussions, > and > > I hope the language will remain respectful. > > > > I believe moderators should ban from this list the person who spoke about > > « wmf flatulence ». > > > > > > I dont want to read that type of language among people who are > supposedly > > asked to write neutral enccyclopedias. > > > > It puts pressure and stress on those who would like to answer on this > > thread, it sets an aggressive climate. > > > > Please could we all feel empowered to apply our founding principles and > > refuse any such language here and on meta in these discussions? > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Nattes à chat > > > > > > Envoyé de mon iPhone > > > > > Le 10 sept. 2020 à 03:53, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > > > > > Yair > > > > > > I was in the room in 2017 when the first community consultation on the > > > strategy program took place. Affiliates were asked to send a person > > > specifically for the strategy process, and WMF also invited some other > > > community members. There was absolutely no coercion, or control over > what > > > topics were raised during those discussions. The program was not run by > > the > > > WMF and everyone was free to contribute any ideas they had, as the > > program > > > went on we chose which areas and topics we wanted to be the focus. > Trust > > > and safety, and user conduct were areas that were identified as > necessary > > > to the future development of the movement. This process has been open > for > > > ideas, comments, and suggestions. Yes the WMF has funded the process > but > > > every choice has been made by community members without any duress or > > > reward as to where each step lead. > > > > > > As someone who actively runs projects for the last 10 years to bring in > > new > > > contributors, I have concerns about the UCoC process in giving > advantages > > > to those who have been around longer but that is not something that > will > > be > > > unique to this as its already an issue in all projects where the new > > person > > > is the one frequently dismissed as wrong when there is a clash between > > > them and someone who has been around long enough to be known. > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 09:11, Yair Rand <yyairr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> The UCoC is obviously a WMF-driven project. It was announced in June > > 2019 > > >> by a member of the WMF Trust and Safety team, was added to the > strategy > > >> process by the group of WMF appointees (or sometimes WMF > > >> appointee-appointees) who made up the working group, had > > >> pseudo-consultations about it started by WMF staff (with > > wildly-misleading > > >> reports written up afterward, again by the WMF), and the UCoC itself > was > > >> drafted by a mixed group of WMF staff and WMF appointees, through a > > process > > >> set by the WMF. > > >> > > >> The communities have repeatedly expressed unambiguous consensus > against > > >> having a WMF-imposed UCoC. The WMF has absolutely no business in > setting > > >> ordinary conduct policy, and they could have the ED and every board > > member > > >> and C-level declare the UCoC to be policy, and threaten every > affiliate > > >> into declaring it as policy, and the only impact would be > demonstrating > > how > > >> far removed they are from Wikimedia. The communities are > self-governing > > and > > >> will implement policy based on community decisions. > > >> > > >> That said, I disagree with Dan's calls for > > nonparticipation/noncooperation > > >> or for specifically withholding funds or support. If we end up in a > > >> situation where the WMF tries to block, desysop, threaten, or sue > > >> contributors, or to seize control over the projects, that would be the > > time > > >> for all editors and affiliates and donors to level-headedly level the > > >> Foundation to its foundations. Until then, we should attempt to work > > with > > >> them, even when their behaviour leaves much to be desired. > > >> > > >> -- Yair Rand > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> בתאריך יום ד׳, 9 בספט׳ 2020 ב-16:03 מאת Jackie < > > >> jackie.koer...@gmail.com>: > > >> > > >>> Hi Dan, > > >>> > > >>> I hear that you are upset by the suggestion and likely implementation > > of > > >> a > > >>> Universal Code of Conduct. I also hear that you feel like this is a > > >>> WMF-driven project. I cannot change your opinion about the UCoC, but > I > > >> can > > >>> say your feelings about this being a WMF-driven project are untrue. > It > > >>> doesn't matter how strongly you feel this, it's actually many groups > of > > >>> people working together. It was determined as a major need during > > >>> discussions I had as part of the Community Health Working Group and I > > am > > >>> glad to see this moving forward. > > >>> > > >>> I am glad you feel comfortable expressing yourself and your feelings > > >> about > > >>> the UCoC. I also would like to say the way in which people express > > >>> themselves and mask insults as "lively discussion" is a huge reason > why > > >> we > > >>> need a UCoC. To that point, I agree with Isaac and would suggest you > > >> share > > >>> in a (collegiate) conversation on the Meta talk page. I just cannot > > take > > >>> you seriously with the language you used in your email. I, however, > > would > > >>> love to take your comments seriously and have you engage in a > > good-faith > > >>> discussion about the UCoC. > > >>> > > >>> Our roles in the discussion should consider not only our needs as > > >>> individuals but the needs of the broader communities. To dismiss the > > UCoC > > >>> is failing to recognize privilege and power structures and their > effect > > >> on > > >>> people in and outside of the Wikimedia community. > > >>> > > >>> Best, > > >>> > > >>> Jackie > > >>> > > >>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 1:42 PM Isaac Olatunde < > > reachout2is...@gmail.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Hello Dan, > > >>>> > > >>>> You are allowed to offer an opinion but I Honestly think that's > better > > >>> and > > >>>> more useful on the Draft talk page. > > >>>> > > >>>> That being said, by "effective vote or representation in the > > >>> proceedings", > > >>>> you probably expected a different model where different language > > >>>> Wikip(m)edia community would be represented or vote on weather to > have > > >> a > > >>>> UCoC. > > >>>> > > >>>> The current model isn't bad. I do think we should review the draft > > and > > >>> if > > >>>> there are specific wording we disagree with, we can either suggest > > >>>> improvement or removal altogether. I honestly think we need to help > > and > > >>>> support the drafting committee at this stage. > > >>>> > > >>>> Regards > > >>>> > > >>>> Isaac > > >>>> > > >>>> On Tue, 8 Sep 2020, 19:25 Dan Szymborski, <dszymbor...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> I'm also perfectly free to express to the IRS that I'd really like > to > > >>>> get a > > >>>>> $10 million check from them at tax time. The ability to offer an > > >>> opinion > > >>>> on > > >>>>> proceedings with no effective vote or representation in the > > >> proceedings > > >>>> is > > >>>>> about as good as a fart in the wind. I'd prefer the WMF keep its > > >>>> flatulence > > >>>>> to itself. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 2:17 PM Isaac Olatunde < > > >>> reachout2is...@gmail.com> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On the contrary, I do not think this is an imposition by the Board > > >> or > > >>>> WMF > > >>>>>> as we are allowed to comment on the draft, and suggest > improvement. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I have been following the process closely and I do not see > anything > > >>>> that > > >>>>>> looks like an "imposition" > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The Universal Code of Conduct is not a substitute to the existing > > >>>> policy > > >>>>> or > > >>>>>> guidelines but a behavioural guidelines expected of users in any > > >>>>> Wikimedia > > >>>>>> project. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Regards > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Isaac > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Tue, 8 Sep 2020, 16:11 Dan Szymborski, <dszymbor...@gmail.com> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> As this is being explicitly imposed by the board from above > > >> without > > >>>>>>> community approval, participating in any way is ethically > > >> unsound. > > >>>>> Doubly > > >>>>>>> so without a board election preceding this as the WMF has > > >>> arbitrarily > > >>>>>>> denied communities the right, as manifested in the election of > > >> the > > >>>>>>> community seats, to voice their opinions of actions that WMF has > > >>>> taken > > >>>>>> over > > >>>>>>> the last 18 months. A collaborative process is a collaborative > > >>>> process > > >>>>>> when > > >>>>>>> it's actually a collaborative process, not just when it's called > > >>> one. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> The best use of time at this point is to organize the communities > > >>> to > > >>>>> use > > >>>>>>> every means at its disposal to resist such an imposition. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 4:18 PM Patrick Earley < > > >>> pear...@wikimedia.org > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hello, everyone. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> We are excited to share a draft of the Universal Code of > > >> Conduct > > >>>>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>, > > >>> which > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees called for earlier this > > >>> year > > >>>>>>>> < > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/May_2020_-_Board_of_Trustees_on_Healthy_Community_Culture,_Inclusivity,_and_Safe_Spaces > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>>>>> for your review and feedback. The discussion will be open until > > >>>>> October > > >>>>>>> 6, > > >>>>>>>> 2020. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> The UCoC Drafting Committee > > >>>>>>>> < > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee > > >>>>>>>>> wants > > >>>>>>>> to learn which parts of the draft would present challenges for > > >>> you > > >>>> or > > >>>>>>> your > > >>>>>>>> work. What is missing from this draft? What do you like, and > > >> what > > >>>>> could > > >>>>>>> be > > >>>>>>>> improved? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Many thanks to the Committee, and everyone who has helped with > > >>>>>>> translations > > >>>>>>>> so far. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Please join the conversation > > >>>>>>>> < > > >>>>>> > > >>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Draft_review > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> and share this email with others who may be interested to join, > > >>>> too. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> To learn more about the UCoC project, see the Universal Code of > > >>>>> Conduct > > >>>>>>>> page > > >>>>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>, > > >> and > > >>>> the > > >>>>>> FAQ > > >>>>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/FAQ > > >>> , > > >>>> on > > >>>>>>> Meta. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> [2] > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/May_2020_-_Board_of_Trustees_on_Healthy_Community_Culture,_Inclusivity,_and_Safe_Spaces > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> [3] > > >>>>>>> > > >>>> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Draft_review > > >>>>>>>> [4] > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/FAQ > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>> Patrick Earley > > >>>>>>>> Policy Manager, Trust and Safety > > >>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation > > >>>>>>>> pear...@wikimedia.org > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >>>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: > > >>>>> 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> , > > >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Jackie Koerner, Ph.D. > > >>> jackiekoerner.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >>> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > GN. > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > > August > > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > > > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page > > > My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, 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