It would result in every block effectively being anon-only, and it would also make CU next to useless. Granting IPBE by default to autoconfirmed/extendedconfirmed/etc. users is not feasible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ User:Vermont <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Vermont> on Wikimedia projects they/them/theirs (why pronouns matter <https://www.mypronouns.org/what-and-why>) On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 4:00 PM Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote: > IPBE for autoconfirmed is a local matter, it would imply that any block > (TOR included) will, in practice, almost turn into anon-only. > > Expiration is an option, as for any global group. > > Vito > > Il giorno gio 21 apr 2022 alle ore 19:51 Nathan <nawr...@gmail.com> ha > scritto: > >> How significant is the risk in just granting autoconfirmed (or similar) >> users IPBE by default? Why does IPBE expire anyway? >> >> On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:50 AM DerHexer via Wikimedia-l < >> email@example.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thanks for raising the topic. Being a steward for 14+ years, I've >>> followed closely the evolution of that problem. >>> >>> “When I noticed that range blocks caused more harm than good (countless >>> mails to stewards), I started to reduce the length of any such block (if >>> necessary at all; I check every single range intensively if a block would >>> case more harm than good). The situation with OPs is a bit different >>> because they obfuscate the original IP address which is pretty often needed >>> by checkusers and stewards to stop harm against the projects. For that >>> reason, I agree that we cannot give up on OP blocking. The only way to get >>> out of these problems are (much!) easier reporting ways, more people who >>> can give out exceptions (locally and globally) and check outdated OPs and >>> IPBEs. Maybe it would also make sense to give long-term users an option to >>> self-assign an IPBE (e.g.) once per week for x hours for such cases like >>> edit-a-thons. Most of their IP addresses used would still be reported (in >>> order to prevent abuse) but most problems for that one moment would be >>> solved (and users could look for long-term solutions).” >>> >>> Why the quotation marks? Because I've posted that very same message to >>> the metawiki page >>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:No_open_proxies/Unfair_blocking#Comment_from_Vermont> >>> and >>> understand it as one step towards a solution. In my opinion, it makes way >>> more sense to talk publicly about the issue and possible solutions than >>> losing good ideas (and there have been some already in this thread!) in the >>> wide world of this mailing list. Let's have that conversation onwiki—and I >>> also encourage the WMF tech departments to join in that conversation. >>> Because we as stewards have reported our problems with the current >>> situation multiple times, sought for technical solutions (e.g., better >>> reporting tools), indeed did get a better rapport with the WMF teams but >>> still are not where we need to be in order to serve both interests >>> (openness and protection). Unsurprisingly, also stewards are individuals >>> with different opinions and (possible) solutions to that one problem. As >>> Vito said, we will once again discuss it and will share our thoughts and >>> solutions. >>> >>> Best, >>> DerHexer (Martin) >>> >>> Am Mittwoch, 20. April 2022, 20:19:48 MESZ hat Florence Devouard < >>> fdevou...@gmail.com> Folgendes geschrieben: >>> >>> >>> Hello friends >>> >>> Short version : We need to find solutions to avoid so many africans >>> being globally IP blocked due to our No Open Proxies policy. >>> *https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/No_open_proxies/Unfair_blocking >>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/No_open_proxies/Unfair_blocking>* >>> >>> >>> Long version : >>> >>> I'd like to raise attention on an issue, which has been getting worse in >>> the past couple of weeks/months. >>> >>> Increasing number of editors getting blocked due to the No Open Proxies >>> policy  >>> In particular africans. >>> >>> In February 2004, the decision was made to block open proxies on Meta >>> and all other Wikimedia projects. >>> >>> According to the no open proxies policy : Publicly available proxies >>> (including paid proxies) may be blocked for any period at any time. While >>> this may affect legitimate users, they are not the intended targets and may >>> freely use proxies until those are blocked [...] >>> >>> Non-static IP addresses or hosts that are otherwise not permanent >>> proxies should typically be blocked for a shorter period of time, as it is >>> likely the IP address will eventually be transferred or dynamically >>> reassigned, or the open proxy closed. Once closed, the IP address should be >>> unblocked. >>> >>> According to the policy page, « the Editors can be permitted to edit by >>> way of an open proxy with the IP block exempt flag. This is granted on >>> local projects by administrators and globally by stewards. » >>> >>> >>> I repeat -----> ... legitimate users... may freely use proxies until >>> those are blocked. the Editors can be permitted to edit by way of an open >>> proxy with the IP block exempt flag <------ it is not illegal to edit using >>> an open proxy >>> >>> >>> Most editors though... have no idea whatsoever what an open proxy is. >>> They do not understand well what to do when they are blocked. >>> >>> In the past few weeks, the number of African editors reporting being >>> blocked due to open proxy has been VERY significantly increasing. >>> New editors just as old timers. >>> Unexperienced editors but also staff members, president of usergroups, >>> organizers of edit-a-thons and various wikimedia initiatives. >>> At home, but also during events organized with usergroup members or >>> trainees, during edit-a-thons, photo uploads sessions etc. >>> >>> It is NOT the occasional highly unlikely situation. This has become a >>> regular occurence. >>> There are cases and complains every week. Not one complaint per week. >>> Several complaints per week. >>> *This is irritating. This is offending. This is stressful. This is >>> disrupting activities organized in good faith by good people, activities >>> set-up with our donors funds. **And the disruption** is primarlly >>> taking place in a geographical region supposingly to be nurtured (per our >>> strategy for diversity, equity, inclusion blahblahblah). * >>> >>> >>> The open proxy policy page suggests that, should a person be unfairly >>> blocked, it is recommended >>> >>> - * to privately email stewards[image: (_AT_)]wikimedia.org. >>> - * or alternatively, to post a request (if able to edit, if the >>> editor doesn't mind sharing their IP for global blocks or their reasons >>> to >>> desire privacy (for Tor usage)). >>> - * the current message displayed to the blocked editor also suggest >>> contacting User:Tks4Fish. This editor is involved in vandalism fighting >>> and >>> is probably the user blocking open proxies IPs the most. See log >>> >>> >>> So... >>> Option 1: contacting stewards : it seems that they are not answering. Or >>> not quickly. Or requesting lengthy justifications before adding people to >>> IP block exemption list. >>> Option 2: posting a request for unblock on meta. For those who want to >>> look at the process, I suggest looking at it  and think hard about how a >>> new editor would feel. This is simply incredibly complicated >>> Option 3 : user:TksFish answers... sometimes... >>> >>> As a consequence, most editors concerned with those global blocks... >>> stay blocked several days. >>> >>> We do not know know why the situation has rapidly got worse recently. >>> But it got worse. And the reports are spilling all over. >>> >>> We started collecting negative experiences on this page . >>> Please note that people who added their names here are not random >>> newbies. They are known and respected members of our community, often >>> leaders of activities and/or representant of their usergroups, who are >>> confronted to this situation on a REGULAR basis. >>> >>> I do not know how this can be fixed. Should we slow down open proxy >>> blocking ? Should we add a mecanism and process for an easier and quicker >>> IP block exemption process post-blocking ? Should we improve a process for >>> our editors to pre-emptively be added to this IP block exemption list ? Or >>> what ? I do not know what's the strategy to fix that. But there is a >>> problem. Who should that problem be addressed to ? Who has solutions ? >>> >>> Flo >>> >>>  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/No_open_proxies >>> >>>  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/Tks4Fish >>> >>>  >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Global_permissions#Requests_for_global_IP_block_exemption >>> >>> * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/No_open_proxies/Unfair_blocking >>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/No_open_proxies/Unfair_blocking>* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- firstname.lastname@example.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://email@example.com/message/UU76SJ5LZI5MA5F3WC3NSY4UMGDQTGXR/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- firstname.lastname@example.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://email@example.com/message/Y5UMK72JMT2FZY5V455QHEWHZ3W2QGXQ/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- firstname.lastname@example.org, guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://email@example.com/message/5TMQ4I27YE6F4FIMFLGBVWJ34YLEFXHE/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- firstname.lastname@example.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://email@example.com/message/KZ2A3TFAQXKKCLHUQXEXHMXF6PNAGD5N/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
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