Cool; drop it on the talkpage. The fact that enwiki's policy is consensus-based, of course, does not mean it's a good policy; it can just mean that it's mealy-mouthed enough to not annoy the majority enough to fight for a change. And that's very different. The issues we've seen on that project around enforcing that policy suggest comprehensiveness is not the issue, more community will, and that's not a problem that would hit this proposal given the enforcement structure.
On 10 August 2015 at 15:34, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: > Hmm. I think enwiki has the benefit of having the widest reach and most > extensive development of its policies under a consensus model. On the other > hand, I think that the enwiki example shows that more rules don't > necessarily lead to friendlier communities. As I said earlier, I think that > our goal here is social change, and more rules may or may not help very > much. > > I liked Sumana's discussion awhile back about the need to balance the > values of (A) freedom of expression and (B) hospitality. That said, I'm not > sure where that balance is, and even if we can describe it in policies > (which is uncertain), I'm not sure how we enforce it in an impartial, > transparent, and civil way. > > I'm starting to lean in Neil's direction of thinking that an imperfect > solution is better than the status quo. The tree here is still thinking. I > might propose a variation of Matt's proposal when I've had more time to > think about this. > > > > Pine > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Oliver Keyes <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm not sure why we would be using enwiki as a model for civility, or >> civility enforcement ;). As said in my email, there are a lot of >> examples being brought up on the talk page of tech-specific or >> tech-centric codes of conduct. I'd suggest we avoid fragmenting the >> discussion and move it there; I'm sure there are elements in those >> which would provide the clarity you seek. >> >> On 10 August 2015 at 12:09, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Just to clarify a few points: I support the concept of having a global >> > friendly spaces policy. I'm ambivalent and reluctant when it comes to the >> > particular proposal that we're discussing here. And I think that we >> should >> > keep in mind that any policy's usefulness for social change will be much >> > higher if it has community consensus. >> > >> > Two emails that I'm revisiting in my thought process are from Frances. I >> > agree that personal attacks can be demoralizing and uncivil, and they do >> > happen in our communities on occasion. I'm unclear about how to word a >> > policy that spells out how to AGF and prohibit the kind of incivility in >> > Oliver's example. Would it make sense, I wonder, to copy some of English >> > Wikipedia's highly developed policies into technical spaces like WP:NPA? >> > This gets us back into the rules creep and policy fragmentation problems. >> > Maybe that's an acceptible opportunity cost. I think there might be >> greater >> > support for a specific NPA proposal than for a broader proposal. I could >> > see myself voting in favor of appling English Wikipedia's WP:NPA to >> > technical spaces. I think that this would address a specific issue, and >> > could be a net positive. >> > >> > If there are other specific kinds of problems that are ongoing in >> technical >> > spaces and which would be improved by legislating policy, I would like to >> > hear about them. In my personal travels in technical spaces, my >> experience >> > is that the vast majority of people are civil most of the time. I think a >> > general statement of principles about civility could be fine. I'm curious >> > to hear if more legislation for technical spaces is needed than that. >> > Personally, I think that a global policy might work better. >> > >> > Pine >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikitech-l mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> >> >> >> -- >> Oliver Keyes >> Count Logula >> Wikimedia Foundation >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikitech-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Oliver Keyes Count Logula Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
