Certainly a topic for the front-end standards group, but to give my two cents:
Many of these new JS libraries, such as React, have some very heavy dependancies. React requires JSX which needs to be transpiled into JS, ES6 Class syntax which needs to be transpiled into ES5, which requires Babel and probably a task runner like Grunt or Gulp (or webpack), which of course require Node and NPM... so already you've built a very heavy dependancy chain which itself needs to be maintained (ex: Gulp 4 is coming with breaking changes) and all this needs to be integrated into MediaWiki which has its own way of doing things. None of that sounds like fun to me, so however you proceed I would certainly aim to avoid all that <https://getpocket.com/a/read/1434444086>. On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Derk-Jan Hartman < [email protected]> wrote: > This discussion seems exactly what we have a Frontend Standards group for: > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Front-end_standards_group > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/1616/ > > DJ > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Jan Dittrich <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hello Wikitext-l, > > > > ----------------------------------- > > TL;DR: The Wikidata team is considering to use a MVVM/Single-State > solution > > for Wikidata’s UI. What are requirements and concerns would be important > to > > consider? > > ----------------------------------- > > > > Wikidata’s current UI is built on jQuery UI. Since jQueryUI shall be > faded > > out, we are looking at possible future frameworks or paradigms to build > our > > UI on. Our needs are: > > > > - Having a sustainable foundation > > - Being able to handle complex state dependencies (simplest are like: "if > > element x is in edit mode, set element y to saving mode") > > - A solution that is easy to learn for beginners and easy to read and > > reason about for our engineers. > > > > > > State management and data/event propagation goes beyond of what OOUI can > > provide, as far as I (Jan) know. So an obvious candidate was looking into > > MVVM solutions of which the most well known is the React library. > > > > We had a deeper look at Vue.js which is known for having a large > community, > > too, but being easier to understand and not using an additional patent > > clause in its licensing. > > > > > > We see the following possible advantages: > > > > - Better modularization > > - understandability of our code, in particular reasoning about event- and > > data-flow > > - better separation of concerns and testability for: > > -- HTML templates > > -- Component interactivity > > -- Data manipulation > > -- connection to backend-API > > > > > > - If we use a well documented framework, learning to contribute is much > > easier compared to software for which there is only auto-generated > > code-level-docs > > > > > > Here are some answers to obvious questions: > > > > 1) Does using a MVVM mean we need to write mixed JS/CSS/HTML in a new > > syntax? (aka JSX)? -> No, it is possible, but for most frameworks (Vue, > > too) normal HTML templates are used > > > > 2) Does that mean that people coming from Object oriented languages will > > need to learn a whole new paradigm – reactive, pure-functional > programming? > > -> While there are some elements of functional programming used in > > react-like-frameworks, I would (subjectively) say that few additional, > > totally new knowledge is needed and most can be covered by "take > > parameters, work with them, return values; don't manipulate non-local > > values" > > > > 3) How does DOM access work? Does this mean no jQuery? > > > > > > -> DOM can be still be directly accessed. Libraries like jQuery can still > > be reused (even if they might not be necessary in many points any more). > > However, to change data or dom persistently, you need to tell the library > > (which is not unusual, afaic) > > > > > > There are also some other concerns: > > > > - Should we introduce a new dependency like a framework as Vue? > > - What would be the process of introducing such a dependency (if we agree > > on one)? > > - Can we agree on this (or another?) paradigm for managing complex UIs, > so > > that it is not a Wikidata-only solution, but could be used by other > > Wikimedia projects in the future, too? > > - How will this work with OOUIjs? OOUI seems to be mainly responsible for > > creating DOM elements and this actions are usually owned by the MVVM > > framework. One can use hooks to use libraries like OOUI and such, but it > > feels like having the same functionality twice. A possible solution would > > be using OOUI styles and markup but leaving DOM creation to the > framework. > > > > > > Do you think using Vue (or a similar framework) is an option for us? What > > are requirements and concerns which would be important? > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > Jan > > > > -- > > Jan Dittrich > > UX Design/ User Research > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > > Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0 > > http://wikimedia.de > > > > Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in > the > > sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment. > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg > unter > > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für > > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Jan Drewniak UX Engineer, Discovery Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
