> Many of these new JS libraries, such as React, have some very heavy > dependancies.
Yes, this is true. The usage of such dependencies is often not connected to the way such frontends work, though. E.g. vue can be used without a loader and does not need an extra JSX compiler. It is often used with a loader (webpack, mostly), because many people seem to prefer it and it enables you to structure your code in single-component-files, which I admit, while disliking the dependency, is very comfortable imho. Jan 2017-01-31 14:05 GMT+01:00 Jan Drewniak <[email protected]>: > Certainly a topic for the front-end standards group, but to give my two > cents: > > Many of these new JS libraries, such as React, have some very heavy > dependancies. > React requires JSX which needs to be transpiled into JS, ES6 Class syntax > which needs to be transpiled into ES5, which requires Babel and probably a > task runner like Grunt or Gulp (or webpack), which of course require Node > and NPM... so already you've built a very heavy dependancy chain which > itself needs to be maintained (ex: Gulp 4 is coming with breaking changes) > and all this needs to be integrated into MediaWiki which has its own way of > doing things. > > None of that sounds like fun to me, so however you proceed I would > certainly aim to avoid all that <https://getpocket.com/a/read/1434444086>. > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Derk-Jan Hartman < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > This discussion seems exactly what we have a Frontend Standards group > for: > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Front-end_standards_group > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/1616/ > > > > DJ > > > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Jan Dittrich <[email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hello Wikitext-l, > > > > > > ----------------------------------- > > > TL;DR: The Wikidata team is considering to use a MVVM/Single-State > > solution > > > for Wikidata’s UI. What are requirements and concerns would be > important > > to > > > consider? > > > ----------------------------------- > > > > > > Wikidata’s current UI is built on jQuery UI. Since jQueryUI shall be > > faded > > > out, we are looking at possible future frameworks or paradigms to build > > our > > > UI on. Our needs are: > > > > > > - Having a sustainable foundation > > > - Being able to handle complex state dependencies (simplest are like: > "if > > > element x is in edit mode, set element y to saving mode") > > > - A solution that is easy to learn for beginners and easy to read and > > > reason about for our engineers. > > > > > > > > > State management and data/event propagation goes beyond of what OOUI > can > > > provide, as far as I (Jan) know. So an obvious candidate was looking > into > > > MVVM solutions of which the most well known is the React library. > > > > > > We had a deeper look at Vue.js which is known for having a large > > community, > > > too, but being easier to understand and not using an additional patent > > > clause in its licensing. > > > > > > > > > We see the following possible advantages: > > > > > > - Better modularization > > > - understandability of our code, in particular reasoning about event- > and > > > data-flow > > > - better separation of concerns and testability for: > > > -- HTML templates > > > -- Component interactivity > > > -- Data manipulation > > > -- connection to backend-API > > > > > > > > > - If we use a well documented framework, learning to contribute is much > > > easier compared to software for which there is only auto-generated > > > code-level-docs > > > > > > > > > Here are some answers to obvious questions: > > > > > > 1) Does using a MVVM mean we need to write mixed JS/CSS/HTML in a new > > > syntax? (aka JSX)? -> No, it is possible, but for most frameworks (Vue, > > > too) normal HTML templates are used > > > > > > 2) Does that mean that people coming from Object oriented languages > will > > > need to learn a whole new paradigm – reactive, pure-functional > > programming? > > > -> While there are some elements of functional programming used in > > > react-like-frameworks, I would (subjectively) say that few additional, > > > totally new knowledge is needed and most can be covered by "take > > > parameters, work with them, return values; don't manipulate non-local > > > values" > > > > > > 3) How does DOM access work? Does this mean no jQuery? > > > > > > > > > -> DOM can be still be directly accessed. Libraries like jQuery can > still > > > be reused (even if they might not be necessary in many points any > more). > > > However, to change data or dom persistently, you need to tell the > library > > > (which is not unusual, afaic) > > > > > > > > > There are also some other concerns: > > > > > > - Should we introduce a new dependency like a framework as Vue? > > > - What would be the process of introducing such a dependency (if we > agree > > > on one)? > > > - Can we agree on this (or another?) paradigm for managing complex UIs, > > so > > > that it is not a Wikidata-only solution, but could be used by other > > > Wikimedia projects in the future, too? > > > - How will this work with OOUIjs? OOUI seems to be mainly responsible > for > > > creating DOM elements and this actions are usually owned by the MVVM > > > framework. One can use hooks to use libraries like OOUI and such, but > it > > > feels like having the same functionality twice. A possible solution > would > > > be using OOUI styles and markup but leaving DOM creation to the > > framework. > > > > > > > > > Do you think using Vue (or a similar framework) is an option for us? > What > > > are requirements and concerns which would be important? > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > Jan > > > > > > -- > > > Jan Dittrich > > > UX Design/ User Research > > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > > > Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0 > > > http://wikimedia.de > > > > > > Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in > > the > > > sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment. > > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. > > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg > > unter > > > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für > > > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > -- > Jan Drewniak > UX Engineer, Discovery > Wikimedia Foundation > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Jan Dittrich UX Design/ User Research Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment. Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
