I agree to a point, but you still haven't given me specifics. What is it or was it that caused you so many issues? Regarding the updates of scripts/apps, I would point out two things here. Firstly, some of those apps are written by users and placed in the App Central subject to GW Micro's approval. Secondly, you do have the option to switch off those updates. All you had to do was check a check box. WAs that really so difficult for you? Another thing to be mindful of is that updates are usually there for a reason. If a user finds a way of improving his/her offering, is it not good that they are prepared to share the improvement with the world?
Regarding browse mode, I agree that it is problematic at times. I cannot really comment on Jaws, as I haven't seen any offering beyond the time that I had access to Jaws 13 for a couple of weeks last year. I'm not prepared to install demos, and I'm certainly not prepared to fork out the best part of a thousand Pounds for a screen-reader, no matter how good it may be. Again, I'm not disputing the fact that Jaws probably does handle many aspects of web browsing better than Window-Eyes does. I am in a position to comment regarding NVDA. It's great on the majority of sites as long as the designers of those sites have adhered closely to guidelines. But sadly the world isn't made up of people who all know how to design accessible web content. A screen-reader is by definition a very complex piece of software. Given that NVDA is developed by a community of software engineers who give their time and effort for free, I think it's a pretty amazing concept and deserves the suppor t which we, like many others, have offered by donating towards its development. Window-Eyes pricing has been radically revised, in response to the threat posed by other competing products such as NVDA, and even VoiceOver. I haven't looked for some time at the prices of Jaws, but I wouldn't have expected them to drop as much as those of Window-Eyes have because of the market share which Freedom has amongst the agencies both within the US and elsewhere. Most of the institutions just pay the price and don't give it a second thought. Whereas GW Micro has a bit of a battle on so they have to try and make themselves more competitive. Again, to be clear. I am not Jaws bashing, nor am I trying to suggest that one or other product is superior. To be honest I think it's a bit of both. There are probably some areas where Window-Eyes is superior to Jaws, and others where it is very much inferior. But I'm still awaiting an example of a site which gives you profound difficulties with Window-Eyes. With version 8.2 I am finding that buttons press when I hit enter on them, and Browse mode goes off when I'd expect it too. Actually sometimes it would be nice if Browse mode stayed on when you press a button. It would also be good if you could edit form fields without having to come out of browse mode or even enter a "Forms Mode" at all. Even Jaws has its "Forms Mode" I believe. It would be nice if they could do it the objective way which NVDA and VoiceOver do. Kind regards <--- Gordon Smith ---> <[email protected]> Telephone: United Kingdom: Free Phone: 0800 8620538 Mobile: +44 7907 823971 Europe and other non-specified: +44 1642 688095 United States Of America And Canada: +1 646 9151493 Or: +1 209 436 9443 Vic. Australia: +61 38 8205930 Vic. Australia +61 39 0284505 Fax: +44 1642 365123 Follow Us On Twitter: <http://twitter.com/maciosaccess> Skype: <skype:mac-access-dot-net?call> ------------------------------ On 12 Jul 2013, at 15:24, Dane Trethowan <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm a Window-Eyes user - or I was - and it seemed to me that as Window-Eyes > kept updating its Scripts, Apps or whatever you call them - the worse the > Screen Reader got. > > A classic case in point is that dreadful thing GW Micro call Browse mode and > I won't repeat everything I've already said about it as everything I said > still unfortunately holds true, I just tell any user to compare with say NVDA > or JAWS and spot the difference. > > > On 13/07/2013, at 12:15 AM, Gordon Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dane, Could you qualify that statement please? I have to admit that in some >> respects NVDA is also very much floundering in the dark. There are add-ons >> which make more functionality possible, that is true. But in some respects >> NVDA is a little like the blind leading the blind. Window-Eyes, on the same >> screen, (RollBAck's Main Menu, for instance), is far more functional and >> easy to navigate. Also on some websites NVDA just gets itself in a total >> tangle, whereas other screen-readers including Window-Eyes cope very well. >> I haven't yet had the opportunity to try the same resources with Jaws, but >> I'm sure it would handle them fine. So what I'm asking you is how >> specifically Window-Eyes has gone down hill? Perhaps if you could qualify >> what you're saying, others could try the same experiments to see what >> results they get. Be mindful also of the fact that it is entirely possible >> that local configuration parameters can often profoundly impact on the >> performance of high leve l > r >> esources such as Window-Eyes and NVDA, and that is why I am asking you to >> qualify your statement. >> >> I am not advocating GW Micro, nor am I defending them. I merely am >> interested to know what you mean. >> >> Harping back to a previous comment you made about Windows 8 in another post, >> can you qualify that too? You said, I believe, that you haven't tried >> Windows 8. If that is the case, how do you support your comments regarding >> accessibility? Are you taking your information from the comments of others? >> If so, as somebody who has used and is using Windows 8, I would like to >> know what the original author of the accessibility issues comment was >> eluding too. Again, as somebody who has used it for quite some time, I find >> it to be at least as accessible as Windows 7, profoundly more accessible >> than Windows Vista and, once you get used to the new interface, just as >> accessible and navigable as Windows XP which, as I believe Chris also >> pointed out on list some time ago, will be discontinued as of 30 June 2014. >> Indeed, I believe that Office 2007 support is also to be discontinued >> shortly if it hasn't already been. >> >> I remember that when I installed Window-Eyes version 8, I read something in >> GW's documentation about "Limited" support for Office 2013. If that is the >> case, they had better get their proverbial skates on. NVDA appears, for >> example, to work fine with Word 2013, although I have not yet tried any of >> the other Office components. System Access also appears very usable with >> Windows 8, although I haven't as yet tried it with Office 2010 or Office >> 2013. >> >> Kind regards >> >> <--- Gordon Smith ---> >> >> <[email protected]> >> >> Telephone: >> >> United Kingdom: Free Phone: >> 0800 8620538 >> >> Mobile: >> +44 7907 823971 >> >> Europe and other non-specified: >> +44 1642 688095 >> >> United States Of America And Canada: >> +1 646 9151493 >> Or: >> +1 209 436 9443 >> >> Vic. Australia: >> +61 38 8205930 >> Vic. Australia >> +61 39 0284505 >> >> Fax: >> +44 1642 365123 >> >> Follow Us On Twitter: >> <http://twitter.com/maciosaccess> >> >> Skype: >> <skype:mac-access-dot-net?call> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> On 12 Jul 2013, at 14:36, Dane Trethowan <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I've given this a great deal of thought. >>> >>> I hoped to be able to order the Social-Eyes last week but that will have to >>> wait a little longer but despite all of this I have to confess myself >>> somewhat disappointed that GW Micro are spending a whole heap of resources >>> trying to sell Social-Eyes, Gw Connect and God only knows what else at the >>> neglect of the main product which GW Micro is famous for, that being >>> Window-Eyes. >>> >>> I installed the latest version on 1 of my PC's yesterday and to say that >>> Window-Eyes has gone downhill in a very short period of time would >>> certainly be an understatement. >> >> ======================================= >> >> To post to this group, please send your message to: >> [email protected] >> The Windows-Access E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit your personalise >> subscriber options page, located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/windows-access >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Windows-Access forum >> at either of the following websites: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/windows-access/index.html >> Or: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> [email protected] > > > ********** > > Dane Trethowan > Skype: grtdane12 > Phone US (213) 438-9741 > Phone U.K. 01245 79 0598 > Phone Australia (03) 9005 8589 > Mobile: +61400494862 > Fax +61397437954 > > > > ======================================= > > To post to this group, please send your message to: > [email protected] > The Windows-Access E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus > and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit your personalise subscriber > options page, located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/windows-access > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Windows-Access forum at > either of the following websites: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/windows-access/index.html > Or: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> > > --------------------------------------- > > > [email protected] ======================================= To post to this group, please send your message to: [email protected] The Windows-Access E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit your personalise subscriber options page, located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/windows-access You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Windows-Access forum at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/windows-access/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> --------------------------------------- [email protected]
