[Winona Online Democracy]
Perhaps someone could explain to me in simple terms why, while Mr.
Clinton(personal life excluded) had a good economy and within 2 years of
taking office Mr. Bush has us going the other way like a downhill speed
skier?
Bob Kaldunski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roy Nasstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Paul Double" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Online
Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Winona] Savings Information Request to local public bodies
> [Winona Online Democracy]
>
> For any online democracy readers interested in an excellent and
> thoroughgoing analysis of just how precipitous a drop in corporate income
> tax contributions to the federal treasury we've seen in the last five
years,
> I offer this link to an article by the Harvard Business School's Mihir
> Desai. http://slate.msn.com/id/2078581/
>
> Apparently, between 1997 and 2002, corporate income taxes fell 21 percent
in
> real terms, and their contribution to overall revenues fell an incredible
33
> percent! Using data drawn from the highly useful Treasury Department's
> Monthly Statements, Desai documents a $40 billion reduction in corporate
> taxes paid in 2002 over 1997. Puzzling, isn't it, given the unparalleled
> corporate growth and expansion over the same years?
>
> The culprit turns out to be a growing divergence, beginning in the
mid-'90s,
> between book income (the profits companies report to shareholders) and tax
> income (the profits they report to the Internal Revenue Service). In 1993,
> at firms with more than $250 million in assets-which pay the overwhelming
> majority of corporate income taxes-the two figures were rather close. Such
> companies claimed $1.12 in book income for every dollar in tax income. But
> Desai shows that the ratio rose in each of the following five years so
that
> by 1998 large companies were reporting $1.63 in book income for each
dollar
> of tax income. That year, in fact, tax income fell 10.8 percent while book
> income rose 0.8 percent. In dollar terms, the gap between the two figures
> rose from $37 billion in 1993 to $172 billion in 1996 to $247 billion in
> 1998.
>
> Facts - they're stubborn things.
>
>
> Anne Morse
>
>
> FYI, changes in federal tax policies directly affect state tax revenues,
> which as we can see will in turn be affecting our local government aid.
At
> least with regard to taxes, it's nearly impossible to affect one without
> affecting the other.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Roy Nasstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Paul Double" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Online Democracy"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Winona] Savings Information Request to local public bodies
>
>
> > [Winona Online Democracy]
> >
> >
> >
> > Although national fiscal policy has a major impact on local and state
> > finances, at this point the potential severity of local budgetary cuts
> > requires an immediate local focus. It would be useful if the city and
> county
> > published their budgets as quickly and as widely as possible so that the
> > public can see revenues and expenditures, current and projected, with
> > perhaps worst case scenarios. (The school district has supplied useful
> > information on future problems.) Especially important is attention to
the
> > costs of functions of government rather than to specific items in a
> > line-item budget. The local newspapers could help present the data in
> > comprehensible form. They could also provide an explanation of terms.
For
> > most people, government finance is unknown territory outside the realm
of
> > property taxes. A surprising number of people have never heard of LGA,
> > although it is an integral part of the state and local budgeting issues.
> The
> > internet could provide another means of conveying information.
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course not everyone will study the data, but at least a larger number
> of
> > people than now will have the opportunity. Without some specific
> information
> > available, the call for citizen input will result largely in responses
in
> > defense of particular interests. This particularism is not bad in
> > itself--and is necessary in many cases--but outside of any wider context
> it
> > can present a skewed picture of perceived financial needs and
> consequences.
> > Services aimed at all people can be ignored because they are not salient
> > enough to merit the attention of strong interest groups even though of
> major
> > importance to the community at large.
> >
> >
> >
> > Roy Nasstrom
> >
> > Winona
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Double" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 9:35 AM
> > Subject: FW: [Winona] Savings Information Request to local public bodies
> >
> >
> > > [Winona Online Democracy]
> > >
> > >
> > > Dwayne and others,
> > >
> > > Economist who have advised presidents including President Kennedy have
> > > supported the idea that tax cuts do kick start the economy and do in
> fact
> > > generate more in taxes as people sell off assets and add reportable
> > taxable
> > > income. The plan, whatever it ends up to be, must in my opinion, do
> > several
> > > things. First it must cause consumers to buy goods or services that
put
> > > people back to work. Second it must pay for itself by accelerating
the
> > > taxable income for those who have parked assets and will sell "because
> to
> > > tax rates are lower". Third it must provide incentives for "people"
to
> > > invest in business and take higher risks rather than in park it banks
> and
> > > government bonds. Fourth it must start a process of long term capital
> > > formation which enables people to buy a home, save for their
children's
> > > college education, plan for their retirement so that when that day
comes
> > > they have the ability to pay for it rather than having to look to the
> > > government for a loan, grant or subsidized tuition.
> > >
> > > Dwayne I too would like to see this information as well especially if
we
> > > wanted to move to number one in taxes. This link shows were we are
now
> at
> > > 7.85% to the current #1 District of Columbia at 9.3. I doubt the
"super
> > > wealthy" even at those rates will solve the appetite of those wish to
> > spend
> > > more. I would love to see someone put to rest this argument the
getting
> > the
> > > "fat cats" "Super Wealthy" "CEO's" will ever provide enough revenue to
> > > quench the thirst of the spenders.
> > > http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.html
> > > "But I would also like to see the facts laid out as to how much money
> the
> > > State tax cuts cost three years ago and where we would be now if they
> had
> > > not been made. I would also like to see how much money could be
raised
> by
> > > increasing the state income rates on the super wealthy."
> > >
> > > Now back to the local issue
> > >
> > > Local units of government, are faced with the realtity that increased
> > taxes
> > > "will not happen". We can continue the past rhetoric of more,
> > > more, more money (taxes) but that will not happen at least in the
> > > foreseeable future regardless of protests, marches, candle visuals or
> > > petitions.
> > >
> > > Local governments therefore must be prudent and "plan for the reality
of
> > the
> > > time" and which proposals being considered at the capitol will have
less
> > > impact on their unit and therefore us. LGA provides Winona with
> > significate
> > > property tax relief but most people don't understand that. Given the
> > choice
> > > a wage freeze or severe LGA (Local Government Aid) reductions,
Community
> > > Education Fund Balance Caps
> > > verses K-12 cuts or wage freezes verses Social Services Staff cuts
> focuses
> > > us on those proposals which improve our outcome. Government workers
are
> > not
> > > the first to see their salaries froze as we in industry have been
> dealing
> > > with it for years as we continue to see our revenues and more
important
> > > margins not keep pace with government regulation, increased taxes and
> > > healthcare. Without margins we can not grow, provide benefits, return
> for
> > > investors, capital for new equipment and survive in a global
> marketplace.
> > >
> > > Demanding more money doesn't cut it and that message falls on deaf
ears.
> > It
> > > is time to deal with downsizing government or at least holding our
own.
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul Double
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> > > _
> > > Hello Paul and Others,
> > >
> > > Paul, those facts and figures are very important and they should be
laid
> > > out on the table. I believe a discussion of a public employee freeze
is
> a
> > > very valid issue to consider. (The idea is something I might even
agree
> > to
> > > even though my wife and I are both public employees.)
> > >
> > > But I would also like to see the facts laid out as to how much money
the
> > > State tax cuts cost three years ago and where we would be now if they
> had
> > > not been made. I would also like to see how much money could be
raised
> by
> > > increasing the state income rates on the super wealthy.
> > >
> > > It seems a bit odd that President Bush and others are pushing in the
> > > opposite direction, tax cuts for the super wealthy. Heck, based on a
> > > national report just released today the 200 top leaders of Enron
> (remember
> > > whose plane candidate George W. Bush flew around Texas in?), were able
> to
> > > avoid paying taxes on billions of dollars of income.
> > >
> > > The purported reason is that the wealthy would have more money to
spend
> > and
> > > create jobs. Why do we want to give the rich tax cuts and freeze the
> > > salaries of a big chunk of the middle class? Won't the public
employees
> > > also invest and spend their money and thus create jobs under that line
> of
> > > thought? I think the main difference is who can afford to buy the
> > > politicians that run the show.
> > >
> > > A big part of the middle class is being asked to take a wage freeze,
the
> > > poor are going to be hit hard with cuts, and President Bush wants to
> give
> > > the super wealthy tax cuts.
> > >
> > > I guess if you can throw enough money at an issue; you can then hire
the
> > > right accountants to create tax shelters (Enron), fund whatever
> so-called
> > > think tank you want to justify your position, and also buy your own
> > > politicians to boot.
> > >
> > > The State and Federal budget problems are economic ones but they are
> also
> > > political problems. The 1990's produced a record amount of wealth
for
> > > some and they in turn invested in certain political parties and now
they
> > > are reaping their returns on their investments.
> > >
> > > Isn't it about time for real campaign finance reform?
> > >
> > > Dwayne Voegeli
> > >
> > > ===================
> > >
> > > >[Winona Online Democracy]
> > > >
> > > >Congratulations and thumbs up are in order for WAPS, Winona County
and
> > the
> > > >City of Winona for releasing the freeze dollar information to the
> media.
> > > >This two million dollars savings is the right step in the process of
> > > >analyzing proposals that may become reality. It also protect jobs
> > verses
> > > >entire program cuts.
> > > >
> > > >Now if Southeast Technical College and Winona State University will
do
> > the
> > > >same so that the impact can address if student tuition increases are
> > > >necessary.
> > > >
> > > >At least now we can see the light of Day! Senator Day that
is--------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Paul Double
> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Thanks for the suggestion.
> > > >
> > > >The Legislative Committee for Winona Area Public Schools has already
> > > >identified that, with the current budget situation, it would be a
good
> > > >priority to identify unfunded mandates and request the legislature to
> > > remove
> > > >them -- as opposed to asking for more money. An email went out to
all
> > > staff
> > > >earlier this week asking them to submit ideas for mandates they
> encounter
> > > in
> > > >the course of their work that they feel are unnecessary.
> > > >
> > > >The district would certainly be open to any suggestions from those on
> > this
> > > >list for mandates that could realistically be repealed.
> > > >
> > > >-Steve Kranz
> > > >-Board Member, Winona Area Public Schools
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Paul Double" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >To: "Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:02 AM
> > > >Subject: FW: [Winona] Savings Information Request to local public
> bodies
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> [Winona Online Democracy]
> > > >>
> > > >> Local elected leaders are part of the solution.
> > > >>
> > > >> In the past almost every elected official has complained about
state
> > > >> mandates and the impact on their budgets. This maybe the golden
> > > >opportunity
> > > >> to get rid of the mandates to offset lower tax revenue or has the
> cost
> > of
> > > >> the mandates been a Trojan horse to throw out to the public as a
way
> to
> > > >> blame another body for increased taxes and fees.
> > > >>
> > > >> As part of this discussion and assuming past statements have
> supporting
> > > >> facts what at the "five" top cost state mandates in "each unit of
> > > >> government" that they would recommend be eliminated and what would
> be
> > > the
> > > >> resulting annual savings be assuming the Governor and Legislature
> would
> > > >> approve elimination?
> > > >>
> > > >> Shouldn't proactive ways to reduce or freeze the cost of government
> > > >> supercede the local summit agenda on how to get or keep more of the
> > > >> taxpayers money?
> > > >>
> > > >> Could it be the job is too tough for nice people to handle?
> > > >>
> > > >> Paul B. Double
> > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
> > > _
> > > >> _
> > > >> An off line question was asked about excessive pay for corporate
> heads
> > > and
> > > >a
> > > >> freeze for them ---
> > > >>
> > > >> Leaders, lead by example and the idea of those leading setting an
> > example
> > > >> Would be good. Instead of a freeze excessive corporate salaries
> should
> > > >> be rolled back 5-10 % resulting in higher income taxes being paid
by
> > > >> their employing corporations.
> > > >>
> > > >> Increased corporate profits should increase dividends for pension
> fund
> > > >> investors, individual investor dividend income and should also
> > increases
> > > >> the value of their stock. While the tax collections may not yield
> > > >> increases (the corporate executive goes down, the corporation taxes
> go
> > > >> up, the pension fund is exempt and the increase stock value yields
> > > >> nothing until sold).
> > > >>
> > > >> The leadership model they would provide would reinforce the idea
that
> > > >> controlling
> > > >> cost is as important and sometimes more important than as
increasing
> > > >> sales or taxes. The reward for their co-workers is stable
employment
> > as
> > > >> well as
> > > >> providing their boss, the owners(stockholders) with a return on the
> > > >> capital that exceeds the risk afforded by parking their investments
> in
> > > >> Government Bonds, Bank CD's or stuffing it under the mattress.
> > > >>
> > > >> Paul Double
> > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
> > > _
> > > >> ____________________
> > > >>
> > > >> >A. How much money would be saved by each local unit of
government
> > if
> > > a
> > > >> >salary freeze were implemented by the state for one year?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >B. If my memory serves me right, each one percent represents in
> > WAPS
> > > >> >about $160,000
> > > >> > Assuming state aide to K-12 education stays the same what
> would
> > > >that
> > > >> >do the cash balances on hand one year later?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >C. Also the same question is asked for WSU and SE Technical and
if
> > > >frozen
> > > >> >would there be any need for tuition increases?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Paul Double
> > > >> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> __________________________________________________________________
> > > >> The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now!
> > > >> http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp
> > > >>
> > > >> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
> > > >> http://webmail.netscape.com/
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------
> > >
> > > Dwayne Voegeli
> > >
> > > Winona County Commissioner, District #2
> > >
> > > (507) 453-9012
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > 870 44th Ave.
> > > Winona, MN 55987
> > >
> > > ------------
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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