Cat doesn't have my tongue Brad. I'm just doing my best not to take the
bait.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 6:59 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

Hello Tom,

Brag about networks?  Still do!  lol  

Believe me when I say you're preaching to the choir when it comes to
Trango.
It has been a wild ride UP with the 5800/5830 product and certainly a
disappointing DOWNWARD slide with the introduction of yet one miserable
Trango product after another.  As we predicted Trango has lost its
rudder
and drifting aimlessly without any apparent direction.  This has been
very
disheartening to witness to say the least.  I'm still holding out hope,
but
not holding my breath.

Once the M5830 is gone we'll have moved along to another product.
Hopefully
that product will be Alvarion VL, but not until the "RF purists" (as
they
like to call themselves <cough-bullshit-cough>) make a few fundamental
changes.  Dual polarity and dual band on the fly.  I've asked Patrick
this
question, but it appears the cat's got his tongue!  <grin>

What's the big deal for Alvarion to add another Atheros radio to the
product
that will give them dual polarity and dual band capability?  Alvarion
would
rather you have to stock twice the SKUs (V & H SUs) for the ability to
change polarity?  Not to mention the truck rolls required...this is
simply
out of the question.

Best,


Brad 




-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

Brad,

I got an idea! How about Trango Fix ARQ for the 5830-EXT, so it can be
like 
old times, and we can sit and brag on the list how great our networks
are?

One of the reasons StarOS is becoming such an exciting platform. StarOS
can 
be used as a multi-freq, Multi-polarity on the fly product.
I will say that Alvarions choice to not make Dual Freq radios, has
allowed 
them to deliver the highest gain from a radio with good clean filtering
of 
the spectrum range.
But nobody has a good excuse for not offering Dual Polarity, there just 
isn't a negative to it.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Belton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links


Agreed that Trango has clearly fallen behind...way behind.  However, the
VL
is also far from being an "end all" solution.  The VL has no mechanism
to
avoid interference (No RX threshold etc.) other than just to retransmit.

Also, the VL does not offer the flexibility to change polarities on the
fly.
In fact Alvarion doesn't even offer an H Polarity SU INT and if you
rotate
the V Polarity SU to H you'll likely have a water penetration problem.

The VL is only available in a 5.3GHz or 5.8GHz solution further limiting
the
flexibility the product offers.  As our HUB sites increase in number and
decrease in required coverage area we have found the 5.3GHz band to be
VERY
valuable.  You do not have that flexibility with VL.

When Alvarion is presented with the freq and polarity suggestions they
simply respond with "we're RF purists" talking points.  No indication
that
maybe, just maybe those would be good features to add to the product.

We deployed a VL in an above average noisy environment with the latest
v3.x
firmware and the results were dismal to say the least.  Fortunately
upgrading to v4.0 allowed us to salvage the deal, but we still can only
pass
a few Mbps.  This is far less than what a Trango M5830AP can do in a
noisy
environment.

As with most things YMMV.

Best,


Brad



-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

Please know that I am not really trying to trash Trango here. They are
still a viable product in some situations. Alvarion is simply so much
better that it warranted this upgrade. Obviously for heavily used links
feeding towers to other towns I think Trango multipoint is a bad option.
I have not used their Atlas radios which may well do a good job. Trango
has been a valuable product for many WISPs over the years (including
myself until recently). I have found though that for my applications in
feeding other towers to rural towns Alvarion VL works 100% better than
Trango or anything else I have ever used. If you have a need for a
low-cost short haul or CPE solution then I am guessing that the Trango
multipoint radios will still provide excellent service. Just because I
have soured on them does not mean they are not a platform for WISPs to
consider.
Scriv

> I was thinking about using Trango for a link, but I do not want
> headaches, not today and not 5 years from today.
>    Thanks.
>
> Mario
>
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