Tom,

I can give you some Canopy buying tips off line ...

Also I would like to add that the $150 Trango fox is basically useless with
the Dish, putting its true price to $250 or so ...

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 4:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

Gino,

The prices you state seem way low.  I've only see nthat on temporar or Ebay 
type buying.
Is their a CONSISTENT source for $225 and $550 pricing in less than 25 qty?

I believe that anyone that is required to buy in qty higher than 25 to get 
best price is getting overly burdened and likely loosing their savings after

looking at all cash flow costs.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gino A. Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 11:05 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] vendor specs


> Let me comment on this ....
>
> #Canopy 5.7 AP - $970 (Advantage $1,974)
>
> is this MRSP ? you can buy this the AP for $800 +/- , Advantage for $1500
>
> #C/I advantage
> #Fixed up/down ratio
>
> Add GPS Sync, Feature rich firmware, NMS Software, Strong support, Good
> promos, Only Manufacturer to offer price conscious upgrade program, third
> party products (dishes , gps syncs) ect ect ect
>
> #$490 CPE ($737 advantage) .. yikes with CPE you have 3 options :
>
> Canopy Lite (1mbps) $170 +/- 25 packs
> Canopy (14 Mbps Burst) $225 +/-
> Canopy Advantage (14 Mbps sustained ) $550 ( way over priced IMHO )
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 10:31 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] vendor specs
>
> Hi,
>
> I changed the subject line to reflect more the direction of this
> discussion (Trango vs. Canopy vs. Alvarion)... ;)
>
> This is just off the top of my head, and I would love to see more data
> on any of these radios:
>
> Trango 5830AP - $1,079 retail
> Dual polarity
> 10Mbps (auto up/down ratio)
> Easy management (CLI and web)
> $149 CPE ($199 up to 10 miles)
>
> Canopy 5.7 AP - $970 (Advantage $1,974)
> C/I advantage
> Fixed up/down ratio
> $490 CPE ($737 advantage)
>
> Alvarion VL AP - $4,500 (rough retail)
> 36Mbps and 40,000pps
> $1,000 CPE
>
> For whatever it's worth, we have over 2,500 CPE in the air and over
> 2,000 are Trango (900mhz, 2.4ghz, 5.8ghz). The Trango product has worked
> very well for us, and we are located on some mountaintop repeater
> locations that literally have over 100 antennas (paging, HAM, WISPs,
> etc.) within 100 yards of each other.
>
> Our biggest problem is frequency availability at all (regardless of
> radio choice)... we have a 2.4ghz AP at a repeater station that is
> "full". We attempted to install a second sector today and ran a site
> survey at this location.... across the entire 2.4ghz band, the "average"
> signals ranged from -25 to -55 at the best. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Jon Langeler wrote:
>
>> Tom, I have nothing to gain or lose by telling you what we've not only
>> extensivley tested but also experienced over 6 years. We started using
>> canopy since it began shipping and at least 100 trango SU between 3
>> different towers since beta. I just hate to see fellow wisp protest
>> that there isn't a good product and struggle when their actually is a
>> pretty darn good one...and on top of that has an upgrade path in it's
>> vision, it keeps getting better.
>>
>> ARQ does not affect C/I like FEC does for example. When you say ARQ is
>> fixing any resiliance problems that may be true. But you'll also
>> suffer from increased latency and less throughput during those
>> retransmissions. Not good if you want to support VOIP and keep
>> customers happy. Having a low C/I means the system will be stable more
>> often and maintain a lower retrans. Trango's ARQ is not even an option
>> in the 5800 model which is what you and I probably have a decent
>> percentage of in our Trango networks. Having a low C/I requirement
>> affects other things like increases the range of a product. I'm laying
>> out facts, you can convince yourself of whatever you want...
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Tech.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>
>>> Nice try, but I've found that comment to be not at all true. I have
>>> often chosen to avoid canopy user's channels, but because I am a good
>>> WISP neighbor, not because I had to.  Why fight if you can
>>> cooperate.  On a SPEC sheet Canopy does boast the lowest C/I.  But
>>> Trango's specified C/I was reported before considering ARQ. And
>>> Trango has always underspec'd their spec sheets.  C/I is not nearly
>>> as relevant as SNR resilience anyway. With Arq, we've easilly ran
>>> links as low as 4 db above the average noise floor, reliably.  There
>>> is VERY little difference between the Trango and Canopy C/I in real
>>> world usage.  The Trango just adds more polarities as more options to
>>> work around it, when needed.  One of the reasons we like Trango is
>>> its resilience to noise, that gives us the abilty to fight it out and
>>> stand our ground.  The Foxes w/ DISH, have excellent ARQ and
>>> resilience to Noise, within their range and LOS.
>>>
>>> When we start to have trouble with Trango, is when we start to push
>>> the limits of the technology.  Its a LOS technology that we attempt
>>> NLOS with. My arguement is also not that we can't be the last man
>>> standing. Its that when the battle happens the customer sees it, and
>>> the customer does not tolerate it.  IF a Canopy and Trango went to
>>> war, one might survive a little better than the other, but ultimately
>>> both customers would feel the interference the majority of the time.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
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