No, it is my understanding that within the contractual terms of the agreement they are not allowed to directly solicit or sell my customers information.

Anthony Will

Travis Johnson wrote:
Ahhh... there's always a catch... so now Motorola has your customer's address and can use that for their own marketing, etc. without you ever knowing. They could possibly even sell the list to someone (ClearWire) down the road and you would never know.


Anthony Will wrote:

Yes, Motorola provides a service to any customer that purchases or has a canopy product installed for service. This is a $40 mail in rebate that has to have a unique MAC address of the radio installed supplied. The end customer receives this rebate from Motorola. The ISP is prohibited from receiving this money. My guess on this is because they will actually have to pay it for every single radio they sell.... Personally I am a bit frustrated with the program, not of the fact that it doesnt work or any thing like that but I would prefer they just drop the radio cost by $40 but business is business.

Obviously this can help with the residential end of things for advertising free or reduced cost installations or months service with "mail in rebate" We advertise it as one month free service. I must add that the program has had a noticeable effect on our residential customer advertising uptake.

Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Are you saying that Motorola holds the financing?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

If you're serving the residential market, and price is the big concern, it's worth noting that Canopy has a $40 / customer "residential rebate program"
that's been going on for almost 2 years now

It's also worth noting with Canopy that you need to add ~$10 / unit for
power supplies (they are sold separately)

Regarding pricing

AP = $898  (Advantage $1554) Single pricing
CPE = $267 (Advantage $402 ) 25pack pricing  Add $40 a unit for 15 mile
range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)
CPE = $216 (Advantage $324) 100 pack pricing Add $25 a unit for 15 mile
range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)

CPE pricing (if you're focusing on residential), should be adjusted to

25 pack:
LITE: $129 NET ($149 - 40 + 10) -- (this is currently a promo that ends
December 31)
Normal: $237 NET ($267 - 40 + 10)

100 pack:
Normal: $186 NET ($216 - $40 + 10)

Additionally, there are companies out there with Motorola Approved 0%
Financing programs that will let you spread your larger pack CPE consumption over a longer period of time and get you to the next tier bundle pack price,
so you don't tie up important your working capital in inventory / gear


Operating Manager - CTI
Yes...I'm back

WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You

-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Anthony Will
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 10:17 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

Your numbers are a bit off on the canopy and when i looked on the trango
site it looks more in the range of $400 per unit at 30 pack pricing for
trango's.  I believe your getting that price but at what qualities?

I have a couple hundred in the air and I have Midwest Wireless the 5th
largest WISP in the country playing in my back yard using Alvarions junk
BA2 system all over the place.  And I also have a local ILEC,
Stonebridge and the remains of Xtratyme all over the rest of my coverage
area.  My PtmP system is all 900mhz and 2.4 ghz using omni's and I dont
have any issues with interference.  The longest customer link I have on
900mhz is 18.5 miles and the longest 2.4 link is 12 miles. I use omni's
so that I dont completely destroy the airwaves for others that are
playing in the same sand box.

Canopy pricing:
AP = $898  (Advantage $1554) Single pricing
CPE = $267 (Advantage $402 ) 25pack pricing  Add $40 a unit for 15 mile
range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)
CPE = $216 (Advantage $324) 100 pack pricing Add $25 a unit for 15 mile
range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)

Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.

Travis Johnson wrote:


I changed the subject line to reflect more the direction of this
discussion (Trango vs. Canopy vs. Alvarion)... ;)

This is just off the top of my head, and I would love to see more data
on any of these radios:

Trango 5830AP - $1,079 retail
Dual polarity
10Mbps (auto up/down ratio)
Easy management (CLI and web)
$149 CPE ($199 up to 10 miles)

Canopy 5.7 AP - $970 (Advantage $1,974)
C/I advantage
Fixed up/down ratio
$490 CPE ($737 advantage)

Alvarion VL AP - $4,500 (rough retail)
36Mbps and 40,000pps
$1,000 CPE

For whatever it's worth, we have over 2,500 CPE in the air and over
2,000 are Trango (900mhz, 2.4ghz, 5.8ghz). The Trango product has
worked very well for us, and we are located on some mountaintop
repeater locations that literally have over 100 antennas (paging, HAM,
WISPs, etc.) within 100 yards of each other.

Our biggest problem is frequency availability at all (regardless of
radio choice)... we have a 2.4ghz AP at a repeater station that is
"full". We attempted to install a second sector today and ran a site
survey at this location.... across the entire 2.4ghz band, the
"average" signals ranged from -25 to -55 at the best. :(


Jon Langeler wrote:

Tom, I have nothing to gain or lose by telling you what we've not
only extensivley tested but also experienced over 6 years. We started
using canopy since it began shipping and at least 100 trango SU
between 3 different towers since beta. I just hate to see fellow wisp
protest that there isn't a good product and struggle when their
actually is a pretty darn good one...and on top of that has an
upgrade path in it's vision, it keeps getting better.

ARQ does not affect C/I like FEC does for example. When you say ARQ
is fixing any resiliance problems that may be true. But you'll also
suffer from increased latency and less throughput during those
retransmissions. Not good if you want to support VOIP and keep
customers happy. Having a low C/I means the system will be stable
more often and maintain a lower retrans. Trango's ARQ is not even an
option in the 5800 model which is what you and I probably have a
decent percentage of in our Trango networks. Having a low C/I
requirement affects other things like increases the range of a
product. I'm laying out facts, you can convince yourself of whatever
you want...

Jon Langeler
Michwave Tech.

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Nice try, but I've found that comment to be not at all true. I have
often chosen to avoid canopy user's channels, but because I am a
good WISP neighbor, not because I had to.  Why fight if you can
cooperate.  On a SPEC sheet Canopy does boast the lowest C/I.  But
Trango's specified C/I was reported before considering ARQ. And
Trango has always underspec'd their spec sheets.  C/I is not nearly
as relevant as SNR resilience anyway. With Arq, we've easilly ran
links as low as 4 db above the average noise floor, reliably.  There
is VERY little difference between the Trango and Canopy C/I in real
world usage.  The Trango just adds more polarities as more options
to work around it, when needed.  One of the reasons we like Trango
is its resilience to noise, that gives us the abilty to fight it out
and stand our ground.  The Foxes w/ DISH, have excellent ARQ and
resilience to Noise, within their range and LOS.

When we start to have trouble with Trango, is when we start to push
the limits of the technology.  Its a LOS technology that we attempt
NLOS with. My arguement is also not that we can't be the last man
standing. Its that when the battle happens the customer sees it, and
the customer does not tolerate it.  IF a Canopy and Trango went to
war, one might survive a little better than the other, but
ultimately both customers would feel the interference the majority
of the time.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

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