Speaking of Clearwire, folks here are aware that Motorola now owns
NextNet, the hardware supplier to Clearwire (that once was part of
Clearwire, at least in ownership terms), right? The purchase was IN
ADDITION to the $300M investment Motorola made into Clearwire
http://telephonyonline.com/wireless/finance/motorola_clearwire_nextnet_0
70606/

To give you an idea of how much that Moto investment is relative to your
Canopy business....that is more than Canopy makes for Motorola worldwide
over 2 years. 

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

Ahhh... there's always a catch... so now Motorola has your customer's 
address and can use that for their own marketing, etc. without you ever 
knowing. They could possibly even sell the list to someone (ClearWire) 
down the road and you would never know.

Travis
Microserv

Anthony Will wrote:

> Yes,  Motorola provides a service to any customer that purchases or 
> has a canopy product installed for service.  This is a $40 mail in 
> rebate that has to have a unique MAC address of the radio installed 
> supplied.  The end customer receives this rebate from Motorola.  The 
> ISP is prohibited from receiving this money.  My guess on this is 
> because they will actually have to pay it for every single radio they 
> sell.... Personally I am a bit frustrated with the program, not of the

> fact that it doesnt work or any thing like that but I would prefer 
> they just drop the radio cost by $40 but business is business.
>
> Obviously this can help with the residential end of things for 
> advertising free or reduced cost installations or months service with 
> "mail in rebate"  We advertise it as one month free service.  I must 
> add that the program has had a noticeable effect on our residential 
> customer advertising uptake.
>
> Anthony Will
> Broadband Corp.
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>
>> Are you saying that Motorola holds the financing?
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 11:18 AM
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] vendor specs
>>
>>
>> If you're serving the residential market, and price is the big 
>> concern, it's
>> worth noting that Canopy has a $40 / customer "residential rebate 
>> program"
>> that's been going on for almost 2 years now
>>
>> It's also worth noting with Canopy that you need to add ~$10 / unit
for
>> power supplies (they are sold separately)
>>
>> Regarding pricing
>>
>> <snip>
>> AP = $898  (Advantage $1554) Single pricing
>> CPE = $267 (Advantage $402 ) 25pack pricing  Add $40 a unit for 15
mile
>> range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)
>> CPE = $216 (Advantage $324) 100 pack pricing Add $25 a unit for 15
mile
>> range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)
>> </snip>
>>
>> CPE pricing (if you're focusing on residential), should be adjusted
to
>>
>> 25 pack:
>> LITE: $129 NET ($149 - 40 + 10) -- (this is currently a promo that
ends
>> December 31)
>> Normal: $237 NET ($267 - 40 + 10)
>>
>> 100 pack:
>> Normal: $186 NET ($216 - $40 + 10)
>>
>> Additionally, there are companies out there with Motorola Approved 0%
>> Financing programs that will let you spread your larger pack CPE 
>> consumption
>> over a longer period of time and get you to the next tier bundle pack

>> price,
>> so you don't tie up important your working capital in inventory /
gear
>>
>> -Charles
>>
>> -------------------------------------------
>> Operating Manager - CTI
>> Yes...I'm back
>>
>> WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
>> Coming to a City Near You
>> http://www.winog.com
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
>> Behalf Of Anthony Will
>> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 10:17 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs
>>
>>
>> Your numbers are a bit off on the canopy and when i looked on the
trango
>> site it looks more in the range of $400 per unit at 30 pack pricing
for
>> trango's.  I believe your getting that price but at what qualities?
>>
>> I have a couple hundred in the air and I have Midwest Wireless the
5th
>> largest WISP in the country playing in my back yard using Alvarions
junk
>> BA2 system all over the place.  And I also have a local ILEC,
>> Stonebridge and the remains of Xtratyme all over the rest of my
coverage
>> area.  My PtmP system is all 900mhz and 2.4 ghz using omni's and I
dont
>> have any issues with interference.  The longest customer link I have
on
>> 900mhz is 18.5 miles and the longest 2.4 link is 12 miles.  I use
omni's
>> so that I dont completely destroy the airwaves for others that are
>> playing in the same sand box.
>>
>> Canopy pricing:
>> AP = $898  (Advantage $1554) Single pricing
>> CPE = $267 (Advantage $402 ) 25pack pricing  Add $40 a unit for 15
mile
>> range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)
>> CPE = $216 (Advantage $324) 100 pack pricing Add $25 a unit for 15
mile
>> range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)
>>
>> Anthony Will
>> Broadband Corp.
>>
>>
>> Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I changed the subject line to reflect more the direction of this
>>> discussion (Trango vs. Canopy vs. Alvarion)... ;)
>>>
>>> This is just off the top of my head, and I would love to see more
data
>>> on any of these radios:
>>>
>>> Trango 5830AP - $1,079 retail
>>> Dual polarity
>>> 10Mbps (auto up/down ratio)
>>> Easy management (CLI and web)
>>> $149 CPE ($199 up to 10 miles)
>>>
>>> Canopy 5.7 AP - $970 (Advantage $1,974)
>>> C/I advantage
>>> Fixed up/down ratio
>>> $490 CPE ($737 advantage)
>>>
>>> Alvarion VL AP - $4,500 (rough retail)
>>> 36Mbps and 40,000pps
>>> $1,000 CPE
>>>
>>> For whatever it's worth, we have over 2,500 CPE in the air and over
>>> 2,000 are Trango (900mhz, 2.4ghz, 5.8ghz). The Trango product has
>>> worked very well for us, and we are located on some mountaintop
>>> repeater locations that literally have over 100 antennas (paging,
HAM,
>>> WISPs, etc.) within 100 yards of each other.
>>>
>>> Our biggest problem is frequency availability at all (regardless of
>>> radio choice)... we have a 2.4ghz AP at a repeater station that is
>>> "full". We attempted to install a second sector today and ran a site
>>> survey at this location.... across the entire 2.4ghz band, the
>>> "average" signals ranged from -25 to -55 at the best. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> Jon Langeler wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom, I have nothing to gain or lose by telling you what we've not
>>>> only extensivley tested but also experienced over 6 years. We
started
>>>> using canopy since it began shipping and at least 100 trango SU
>>>> between 3 different towers since beta. I just hate to see fellow
wisp
>>>> protest that there isn't a good product and struggle when their
>>>> actually is a pretty darn good one...and on top of that has an
>>>> upgrade path in it's vision, it keeps getting better.
>>>>
>>>> ARQ does not affect C/I like FEC does for example. When you say ARQ
>>>> is fixing any resiliance problems that may be true. But you'll also
>>>> suffer from increased latency and less throughput during those
>>>> retransmissions. Not good if you want to support VOIP and keep
>>>> customers happy. Having a low C/I means the system will be stable
>>>> more often and maintain a lower retrans. Trango's ARQ is not even
an
>>>> option in the 5800 model which is what you and I probably have a
>>>> decent percentage of in our Trango networks. Having a low C/I
>>>> requirement affects other things like increases the range of a
>>>> product. I'm laying out facts, you can convince yourself of
whatever
>>>> you want...
>>>>
>>>> Jon Langeler
>>>> Michwave Tech.
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nice try, but I've found that comment to be not at all true. I
have
>>>>> often chosen to avoid canopy user's channels, but because I am a
>>>>> good WISP neighbor, not because I had to.  Why fight if you can
>>>>> cooperate.  On a SPEC sheet Canopy does boast the lowest C/I.  But
>>>>> Trango's specified C/I was reported before considering ARQ. And
>>>>> Trango has always underspec'd their spec sheets.  C/I is not
nearly
>>>>> as relevant as SNR resilience anyway. With Arq, we've easilly ran
>>>>> links as low as 4 db above the average noise floor, reliably.
There
>>>>> is VERY little difference between the Trango and Canopy C/I in
real
>>>>> world usage.  The Trango just adds more polarities as more options
>>>>> to work around it, when needed.  One of the reasons we like Trango
>>>>> is its resilience to noise, that gives us the abilty to fight it
out
>>>>> and stand our ground.  The Foxes w/ DISH, have excellent ARQ and
>>>>> resilience to Noise, within their range and LOS.
>>>>>
>>>>> When we start to have trouble with Trango, is when we start to
push
>>>>> the limits of the technology.  Its a LOS technology that we
attempt
>>>>> NLOS with. My arguement is also not that we can't be the last man
>>>>> standing. Its that when the battle happens the customer sees it,
and
>>>>> the customer does not tolerate it.  IF a Canopy and Trango went to
>>>>> war, one might survive a little better than the other, but
>>>>> ultimately both customers would feel the interference the majority
>>>>> of the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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