On 7/25/07, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jeromie,
While personally I agree with your view, I don't believe WISPA has an
"official stance" or an "official position" on this subject as yet. Keep
in mind that this news item
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/24/AR2007072402479.html>
just appeared in print yesterday.
This has been talked about many times on the lists. I understand its
"to early" to get a official position, that is exactly why I asked.
This is imho a easy thing to decide. If a ISP wants to hold the
records then its should be part of their SOP. Not Law. They should
only be paid for them if/when the LEA needs them. Any other stance is
baffling. The Gov will not pay for CALEA but will for this, that
amounts to about the same thing (some over lap of requirements)
If enough WISPA members express their views then the Board should be
able to determine a majority view of WISPA members. WISPA may then
choose to communicate that majority view to Congress.
Individual WISPS are of course free to also express their views directly
to Congress. Although the term "politician" carries a negative
connotation these days,
As it did when we were founded. Much of this nations founding fathers
hated the need for such people. Sadly much of the ideas from that time
period have been lost and the words twisted. As a citizen I plan to
express my dislike for this idea.
it is our elected members of Congress who write
the laws that determine what each of us as individuals as well as what
the employees of our 15 different national intelligence agencies can and
can not legally do.
Yup I know that. I speak up when I can, not that I feel my voice is very loud.
jack
Jeromie Reeves wrote:
> UHG!!! What a waste of resources. Can anyone point to even ONE
> terrorist that has even been "sniffed out" due to data from an ISP? I
> did a few quick Google searches and no case has popped up. IMO
> terrorist groups have show that they know how to operate and not leave
> a trail that leads anyplace important till after the fact. Anyone
> remember when it was requested that encryptions have a back door? I
> think this is partly fall out from then. How many ISPs have people who
> use PGP? As a computer shop I can think of at least a few people who
> are using PGP/OpenPGP and one who uses a 2048bit cypher. What is
> WISPA`s official stance on this subject?
>
>
>
> On 7/25/07, David Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> FBI Seeks To Pay Telecoms For Data
>> $5 Million a Year Sought for Firms To Keep Databases
>>
>> By Ellen Nakashima
>> Washington Post Staff Writer
>> Wednesday, July 25, 2007; A07
>>
>> The FBI wants to pay the major telecommunications companies to retain
>> their
>> customers' Internet and phone call information for at least two years
>> for
>> the agency's use in counterterrorism investigations and is asking
>> Congress
>> for $5 million a year to defray the cost, according to FBI officials and
>> budget documents.
>>
>> The FBI would not have direct access to the records. It would need to
>> present a subpoena or an administrative warrant, known as a national
>> security letter, to obtain the information that the companies would
>> keep in
>> a database, officials said.
>>
>> "We have never asked for the ability to have direct access to or to
>> 'data
>> mine' telephone company databases," said John Miller, the FBI's
>> assistant
>> director for public affairs. "The budget request simply seeks to
>> absorb the
>> cost to the service provider of developing an efficient electronic
>> system
>> for them to retain and deliver the information after it is legally
>> requested."
>>
>> The proposal has raised concerns by civil libertarians who point to
>> telecom
>> companies' alleged involvement in the government's domestic surveillance
>> program and to a recent Justice Department inspector general's report
>> on FBI
>> abuse of national security letters. In one case, a senior FBI official
>> signed the letters without including the required proof that they were
>> linked to FBI counterterrorism or espionage investigations.
>>
>> The report also disclosed that the bureau was issuing "exigent letters,"
>> telling telephone companies that the bureau needed information
>> immediately
>> and would follow up with subpoenas later. In many cases, agents did not
>> follow up. Moreover, Inspector General Glenn A. Fine found, there was no
>> legal basis to compel the disclosure of information using such letters.
>>
>> The proposal "is circumventing the law by paying companies to do
>> something
>> the FBI couldn't do itself legally," said Michael German, American Civil
>> Liberties Union policy counsel on national security. "Going around the
>> Fourth Amendment by paying private companies to hoard our phone
>> records is
>> outrageous."
>>
>> Mark J. Zwillinger, a Washington lawyer who represents Internet service
>> providers, said companies have no "business reason" to keep the data.
>> Moreover, he said he did not think telecom companies "are in the
>> business of
>> becoming the investigative arm for the government, keeping data just
>> so the
>> government can get access to it. That's really what the government is
>> asking
>> for: 'Keep data on hundreds of millions of users just in case we need
>> to get
>> data for 15 individuals.' "
>>
>> Last year, according to industry sources, U.S. Attorney General
>> Alberto R.
>> Gonzales and FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III urged telecom
>> providers to
>> keep subscriber information and network data for two years.
>> Legislation is
>> pending in Congress that would require companies to keep the data.
>> What type
>> and for how long would be up to the attorney general.
>>
>> The administration is also attempting to win immunity for telecom
>> companies
>> from criminal and civil liability for any role in the surveillance
>> program.
>>
>> Telecoms have been providing data legally to the government and then
>> charging for it, said a government official not authorized to speak
>> publicly
>> about the matter and who spoke on condition of anonymity. The cost is
>> about
>> $1.8 million a year since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the official
>> said.
>>
>> The idea now, the official said, is to have the telecom companies
>> create and
>> maintain databases of phone and Internet records so that when they
>> receive a
>> subpoena or national security letter, they can deliver the information
>> expeditiously in electronic form.
>>
>> Zwillinger, an Internet and data protection expert with Sonnenschein
>> Nath
>> & Rosenthal and a former federal prosecutor, said that merely
>> retaining
>> the records creates "a very attractive trove" of data that can be
>> subpoenaed
>> by other entities, such as lawyers in divorce proceedings or other civil
>> litigation.
>>
>> The FBI's proposal to pay companies for the records was reported
>> previously
>> by ABC News.
>>
>>
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--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
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