Mike,

Now that I've read those posts of yours, I better understand your position.
I was not taking reduced power into consideration.  I just had in my mind 
the 25watts EIRP often mentioned in FCC precentations over the years.

To the best of my knowledge, the AirSpan product that I am familiar with, do 
not have that same limitation.
Although I do not have that data off the top of my head, to respond 
accurately.

But regardless... What we have here is not a limitation by WiMax, nor by 
3.6G, nor FCC, but a limit posed by the manufacturers and their designs.

Doesn't anyone have any insight on why the FCC rules allow more power for 
wider channels?

I realize that wider channels create larger internal system noise, which 
could be a reason for needing more power for wider channels.
But that is in contradiction to 2.4Ghz rules for Smart Array antennas, that 
rewarded in highr power for those that had narrower beamwidths, and 
interfere less.
In that spirit, I would think it would have been wise to reward those who 
strived to use smaller channels, apposed to penalize them for being more 
efficient.
There obviously has to be a technical reason apposed to spectrum ediquete.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service


> See my other post about Redline's comments and their FCC filed documents.
> It just doesn't have the power.
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
>
>
>> Wimax APs can go much fartehr than 2-5 miles.
>> You are spec'ing the distance limits of their advanced NLOS features.
>> In LOS, they can go just as far as any other unlicened gear.
>>
>> I think its important to define country.  If you are talking about Idaho
>> with houses 20 miles apart, yes, you'd be correct. 2.4Ghz and less is the
>> better option.
>> But where 3.6 Wimax could be exciting is small little towns. where 3 6Mhz
>> channels would actually be enough to get decent speed, and able to 
>> acheive
>> high modulations because its noise free.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
>>
>>
>>> Exactly.
>>>
>>> What good is an AP that can only do 15 megs throughput in the city?
>>>
>>> What good is an AP that can only do 2 - 5 miles in the country?
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess I am a bit perplexed by this premise. Why would people in urban
>>>> areas pay for low bandwidth wireless broadband options? What problem
>>>> does this platform solve under that scenario?
>>>> Scriv
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>>> I would like to note that Redline echoed my thoughts on 3.65 GHz.  It
>>>>> is
>>>>> not
>>>>> for rural providers and is not for high bandwidth providers.  It's 
>>>>> only
>>>>> practical implementation is a dense urban environment with low
>>>>> throughput
>>>>> clients.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> There are a number of WiMAX 3.5 GHz solutions that will tune to 3.65
>>>>>> just fine. I doubt that we would need to force the forum to issue a
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> profile for a frequency band that existing profiles already cover. As
>>>>>> far as I am concerned WiMAX in 3.65 GHz is here in all respects and 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> not just marketing verbiage. Bravo to Matt Liotta on making a move
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I am sure many others will follow. Way to go Matt.
>>>>>> Scriv
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clint Ricker wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom,
>>>>>>> I'd agree.  I'm in no way advocating marketing that is deceptive in
>>>>>>> terms
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> deliverables.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My main point is more that communications in marketing often 
>>>>>>> involves
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> buzzwords that coopt something someone knows for describing your
>>>>>>> product.
>>>>>>> Even if that is, on a technical level, incorrect, on a business and
>>>>>>> communication and marketing standpoint good practice--the reality is
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the end user understands what you are saying and more "truth" is
>>>>>>> communicated--they better understand what to expect from your
>>>>>>> product.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, using terms that mislead the customer into expecting something
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> isn't is an entirely different matter, and one that I don't advocate
>>>>>>> and,
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the end, is very detrimental.  I think it comes down to the
>>>>>>> deliverables,
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> that sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Clint Ricker
>>>>>>> -Kentnis Technologies
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 11, 2008 11:56 AM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First, two thumbs up for Matt. 1) He's leading the way to expand
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>> technologies.  2) He's clever enough to use maximize how he uses of
>>>>>>>> Press
>>>>>>>> Releases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With that said, in response to Clint, I had mixed feelings 
>>>>>>>> regarding
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't see a problem listing "Wimax" in the press release.
>>>>>>>> Wimax/Non-Wimax, whats the difference, its wireless, its latest
>>>>>>>> state
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> art. All the same to the consumer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where I saw it riding the line was stating "Granted a License".
>>>>>>>> I believe that misleads the public to come to a false conclusion.
>>>>>>>> There is a big difference between licensed and unlicensed in the
>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>> eye.
>>>>>>>> Licensed has 100% protection, Unlicensed 100% doesn't.
>>>>>>>> Licenses are usualy exclusive, unlicensed is not.
>>>>>>>> 3650 light licensing is "experiental" and much closer to the
>>>>>>>> characteristics
>>>>>>>> of unlicensed, with registration added.
>>>>>>>> Sure technically 3650 is licensed, but again the reader is misled 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> the service is something more than it really is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Is that ethical? Is it deceptive? Could you here the spin? Its not
>>>>>>>> illegal.
>>>>>>>> Nothing was said that could be miscontrued as a lie. Is it any
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> than typical forward thinking statements of other press releases?
>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> clever marketing?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to make a point in return.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a press release, and it is generally used for marketing 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> publicity.  Who the flip cares about the exact nuances in
>>>>>>>>> technology?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  If
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Matt's company expresses their product in terms that their target
>>>>>>>>> market
>>>>>>>>> understands, then it is good marketing.  It's not like their
>>>>>>>>> customers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> going to do deep layer1 and 2 analysis to see that their bandwidth
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>> over the "one true WiMax".  If it looks like a duck and quacks 
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> duck
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and you're talking to kindergarteners, just go ahead and call it a
>>>>>>>>> duck
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> reeducate the 1/1000 of 1 percent who become ornithologists when
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> grow
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> up and care to learn the subtle nuances.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know companies that sell/sold "wireless DSL".  Technically, this
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> complete absurdity.
>>>>>>>>> But, I'd bet that it did a good job of communicating the
>>>>>>>>> concept--which
>>>>>>>>> is,
>>>>>>>>> after all, the point of marketing.   I'd imagine that they do
>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> companies that sell "High bandwidth 802.11A/B/G Data Traffic
>>>>>>>>> Transport
>>>>>>>>> Solutions".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are service providers who still keep on trying to sell 
>>>>>>>>> "VoIP"
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> multi page explanations about how the analog voice get digitized,
>>>>>>>>> packetized, encapsulated, and 20 other gazillion processes that no
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> really cares about unless they like reading RFCs every time they
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mundane purchase decisions.  Then there's Comcast who, while
>>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> hurt by the existing customer base and financial resources and
>>>>>>>>> technical
>>>>>>>>> infrastructure, became the fourth largest telco in quite a short
>>>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> time.  They did this by having the marketing common sense to sell
>>>>>>>>> "telephone
>>>>>>>>> service", not "Voice over IP".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the customers understand what Matt's product is better because
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> calls
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it "WiMax", then great.  It sure sounds better than "Modified
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pre-release
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> quasi 802.16".  You're in business to sell products...and, that
>>>>>>>>> involves
>>>>>>>>> communication.  Using language that people can understand sells
>>>>>>>>> products
>>>>>>>>> and, in the end, gets more "truth" across--if that is your
>>>>>>>>> objective
>>>>>>>>> here--by actually communicating with people as opposed to using
>>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>> that people just don't understand--nor care to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Clint Ricker
>>>>>>>>> Kentnis Technologies
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2008 7:49 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr
>>>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do your radios have sub channelization?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I Congratulate you on the build, but I have to question if stuff
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> is not part of the total misunderstanding of WiMAX (what it is 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> isn't).
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> really don't think WiMAX is the right term, Maybe WiMAX based, 
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> definitely is not WiMAX.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We just turned up our first WiMAX base station today. Running
>>>>>>>>>> 2.5Ghzand
>>>>>>>>>> using 16e ready hardware. I'm Not trying to steal glory here, 
>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mike Bushard, Jr
>>>>>>>>>> Wireless Network Engineer
>>>>>>>>>> 320-256-WISP (9477)
>>>>>>>>>> 320-256-9478 Fax
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [WISPA] [SPAM] One Ring Networks To Rollout
>>>>>>>>>> New
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WiMAX
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Service
>>>>>>>>>> Importance: Low
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Steve Stroh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fixed WiMAX profiles for 3.5 (non-US), but NOT 3.65 GHz in the 
>>>>>>>>>>> US
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the unique "contention protocol" requirements (systems for 3.65
>>>>>>>>>>> GHz
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> be considered proprietary and quite possibly non-interoperable).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The lower 25Mhz of 3.65Ghz does not have a "contention protocol"
>>>>>>>>>> requirement. However, if the radio implements contention then it
>>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>>> be restricted to the lower 25Mhz. As of today, only WiMAX radios
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> been certified for 3.65Ghz.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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