correct On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:15:18 -0400, "Gino Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > I thought it was > > Airspan 5 mhz channel: 4.07 w > 10 mhz channel 7.24 w > > > Gino A. Villarini > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:19 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service > > Wow- Thats a huge difference. > For those that don't want to pull up the link... > > Redline: 25Mhz ch: 1.3w > AirSpan: 20Mhz ch: 4.07 w > AirSpan: 15Mhz ch: 7.24 w > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:42 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service > > > > and the Redline grant: > > > > > https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COP > Y&RequestTimeout=500&application_id=549096&fcc_id=QC8-AN100UA > > > > So Redline unit does have FAR less power available then AirSpan. > > > > > > ----- > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gino Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service > > > > > >> Airspan grant: > >> > >> > https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/Eas731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COP > >> Y&RequestTimeout=500&application_id=686827&fcc_id=O2J-365T > >> > >> Gino A. Villarini > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On > >> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > >> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:24 PM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service > >> > >> Mike, > >> > >> Now that I've read those posts of yours, I better understand your > >> position. > >> I was not taking reduced power into consideration. I just had in my > >> mind > >> the 25watts EIRP often mentioned in FCC precentations over the years. > >> > >> To the best of my knowledge, the AirSpan product that I am familiar > >> with, do > >> not have that same limitation. > >> Although I do not have that data off the top of my head, to respond > >> accurately. > >> > >> But regardless... What we have here is not a limitation by WiMax, nor > by > >> > >> 3.6G, nor FCC, but a limit posed by the manufacturers and their > designs. > >> > >> Doesn't anyone have any insight on why the FCC rules allow more power > >> for > >> wider channels? > >> > >> I realize that wider channels create larger internal system noise, > which > >> > >> could be a reason for needing more power for wider channels. > >> But that is in contradiction to 2.4Ghz rules for Smart Array > antennas, > >> that > >> rewarded in highr power for those that had narrower beamwidths, and > >> interfere less. > >> In that spirit, I would think it would have been wise to reward those > >> who > >> strived to use smaller channels, apposed to penalize them for being > more > >> > >> efficient. > >> There obviously has to be a technical reason apposed to spectrum > >> ediquete. > >> > >> Tom DeReggi > >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:20 AM > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service > >> > >> > >>> See my other post about Redline's comments and their FCC filed > >> documents. > >>> It just doesn't have the power. > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- > >>> Mike Hammett > >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >>> http://www.ics-il.com > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:12 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service > >>> > >>> > >>>> Wimax APs can go much fartehr than 2-5 miles. > >>>> You are spec'ing the distance limits of their advanced NLOS > features. > >>>> In LOS, they can go just as far as any other unlicened gear. > >>>> > >>>> I think its important to define country. If you are talking about > >> Idaho > >>>> with houses 20 miles apart, yes, you'd be correct. 2.4Ghz and less > is > >> the > >>>> better option. > >>>> But where 3.6 Wimax could be exciting is small little towns. where > 3 > >> 6Mhz > >>>> channels would actually be enough to get decent speed, and able to > >>>> acheive > >>>> high modulations because its noise free. > >>>> > >>>> Tom DeReggi > >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:24 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Exactly. > >>>>> > >>>>> What good is an AP that can only do 15 megs throughput in the > city? > >>>>> > >>>>> What good is an AP that can only do 2 - 5 miles in the country? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- > >>>>> Mike Hammett > >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >>>>> http://www.ics-il.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:11 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX > Service > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>I guess I am a bit perplexed by this premise. Why would people in > >> urban > >>>>>> areas pay for low bandwidth wireless broadband options? What > >> problem > >>>>>> does this platform solve under that scenario? > >>>>>> Scriv > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mike Hammett wrote: > >>>>>>> I would like to note that Redline echoed my thoughts on 3.65 > GHz. > >> It > >>>>>>> is > >>>>>>> not > >>>>>>> for rural providers and is not for high bandwidth providers. > It's > >> > >>>>>>> only > >>>>>>> practical implementation is a dense urban environment with low > >>>>>>> throughput > >>>>>>> clients. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- > >>>>>>> Mike Hammett > >>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >>>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:18 PM > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX > >> Service > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> There are a number of WiMAX 3.5 GHz solutions that will tune to > >> 3.65 > >>>>>>>> just fine. I doubt that we would need to force the forum to > issue > >> a > >>>>>>>> new > >>>>>>>> profile for a frequency band that existing profiles already > >> cover. As > >>>>>>>> far as I am concerned WiMAX in 3.65 GHz is here in all respects > >> and > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>> not just marketing verbiage. Bravo to Matt Liotta on making a > >> move > >>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> I am sure many others will follow. Way to go Matt. > >>>>>>>> Scriv > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Clint Ricker wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Tom, > >>>>>>>>> I'd agree. I'm in no way advocating marketing that is > deceptive > >> in > >>>>>>>>> terms > >>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> deliverables. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> My main point is more that communications in marketing often > >>>>>>>>> involves > >>>>>>>>> using > >>>>>>>>> buzzwords that coopt something someone knows for describing > your > >>>>>>>>> product. > >>>>>>>>> Even if that is, on a technical level, incorrect, on a > business > >> and > >>>>>>>>> communication and marketing standpoint good practice--the > >> reality is > >>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>> the end user understands what you are saying and more "truth" > is > >>>>>>>>> communicated--they better understand what to expect from your > >>>>>>>>> product. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Now, using terms that mislead the customer into expecting > >> something > >>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>> isn't is an entirely different matter, and one that I don't > >> advocate > >>>>>>>>> and, > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> the end, is very detrimental. I think it comes down to the > >>>>>>>>> deliverables, > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> that sense. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>> Clint Ricker > >>>>>>>>> -Kentnis Technologies > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Jan 11, 2008 11:56 AM, Tom DeReggi > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> First, two thumbs up for Matt. 1) He's leading the way to > >> expand > >>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>> new > >>>>>>>>>> technologies. 2) He's clever enough to use maximize how he > >> uses of > >>>>>>>>>> Press > >>>>>>>>>> Releases. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> With that said, in response to Clint, I had mixed feelings > >>>>>>>>>> regarding > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> release. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I didn't see a problem listing "Wimax" in the press release. > >>>>>>>>>> Wimax/Non-Wimax, whats the difference, its wireless, its > latest > >>>>>>>>>> state > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> art. All the same to the consumer. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Where I saw it riding the line was stating "Granted a > License". > >>>>>>>>>> I believe that misleads the public to come to a false > >> conclusion. > >>>>>>>>>> There is a big difference between licensed and unlicensed in > >> the > >>>>>>>>>> public > >>>>>>>>>> eye. > >>>>>>>>>> Licensed has 100% protection, Unlicensed 100% doesn't. > >>>>>>>>>> Licenses are usualy exclusive, unlicensed is not. > >>>>>>>>>> 3650 light licensing is "experiental" and much closer to the > >>>>>>>>>> characteristics > >>>>>>>>>> of unlicensed, with registration added. > >>>>>>>>>> Sure technically 3650 is licensed, but again the reader is > >> misled > >>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>>>> the service is something more than it really is. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Is that ethical? Is it deceptive? Could you here the spin? > Its > >> not > >>>>>>>>>> illegal. > >>>>>>>>>> Nothing was said that could be miscontrued as a lie. Is it > any > >>>>>>>>>> different > >>>>>>>>>> than typical forward thinking statements of other press > >> releases? > >>>>>>>>>> Maybe > >>>>>>>>>> just > >>>>>>>>>> clever marketing? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Tom DeReggi > >>>>>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >>>>>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>> From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:15 PM > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX > >> Service > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to make a point in return. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> This is a press release, and it is generally used for > >> marketing > >>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> publicity. Who the flip cares about the exact nuances in > >>>>>>>>>>> technology? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> If > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Matt's company expresses their product in terms that their > >> target > >>>>>>>>>>> market > >>>>>>>>>>> understands, then it is good marketing. It's not like their > >>>>>>>>>>> customers > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> going to do deep layer1 and 2 analysis to see that their > >> bandwidth > >>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>> coming > >>>>>>>>>>> over the "one true WiMax". If it looks like a duck and > quacks > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> like > >>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> duck > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> and you're talking to kindergarteners, just go ahead and > call > >> it a > >>>>>>>>>>> duck > >>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> reeducate the 1/1000 of 1 percent who become ornithologists > >> when > >>>>>>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> grow > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> up and care to learn the subtle nuances. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I know companies that sell/sold "wireless DSL". > Technically, > >> this > >>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>> complete absurdity. > >>>>>>>>>>> But, I'd bet that it did a good job of communicating the > >>>>>>>>>>> concept--which > >>>>>>>>>>> is, > >>>>>>>>>>> after all, the point of marketing. I'd imagine that they > do > >>>>>>>>>>> better > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> then > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> companies that sell "High bandwidth 802.11A/B/G Data Traffic > >>>>>>>>>>> Transport > >>>>>>>>>>> Solutions". > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> There are service providers who still keep on trying to sell > >>>>>>>>>>> "VoIP" > >>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>> multi page explanations about how the analog voice get > >> digitized, > >>>>>>>>>>> packetized, encapsulated, and 20 other gazillion processes > >> that no > >>>>>>>>>>> one > >>>>>>>>>>> really cares about unless they like reading RFCs every time > >> they > >>>>>>>>>>> make > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> even > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> mundane purchase decisions. Then there's Comcast who, while > >>>>>>>>>>> definitely > >>>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>> hurt by the existing customer base and financial resources > and > >>>>>>>>>>> technical > >>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure, became the fourth largest telco in quite a > >> short > >>>>>>>>>>> amount > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> time. They did this by having the marketing common sense to > >> sell > >>>>>>>>>>> "telephone > >>>>>>>>>>> service", not "Voice over IP". > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> If the customers understand what Matt's product is better > >> because > >>>>>>>>>>> he > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> calls > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> it "WiMax", then great. It sure sounds better than > "Modified > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> pre-release > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> quasi 802.16". You're in business to sell products...and, > >> that > >>>>>>>>>>> involves > >>>>>>>>>>> communication. Using language that people can understand > >> sells > >>>>>>>>>>> products > >>>>>>>>>>> and, in the end, gets more "truth" across--if that is your > >>>>>>>>>>> objective > >>>>>>>>>>> here--by actually communicating with people as opposed to > >> using > >>>>>>>>>>> language > >>>>>>>>>>> that people just don't understand--nor care to. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -Clint Ricker > >>>>>>>>>>> Kentnis Technologies > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2008 7:49 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr > >>>>>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Do your radios have sub channelization? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I Congratulate you on the build, but I have to question if > >> stuff > >>>>>>>>>>>> like > >>>>>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>>>> is not part of the total misunderstanding of WiMAX (what it > >> is > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> isn't). > >>>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>> really don't think WiMAX is the right term, Maybe WiMAX > >> based, > >>>>>>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>> definitely is not WiMAX. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> We just turned up our first WiMAX base station today. > Running > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2.5Ghzand > >>>>>>>>>>>> using 16e ready hardware. I'm Not trying to steal glory > here, > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> just > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> making > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>> point. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Mike Bushard, Jr > >>>>>>>>>>>> Wireless Network Engineer > >>>>>>>>>>>> 320-256-WISP (9477) > >>>>>>>>>>>> 320-256-9478 Fax > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>>>>>>> On > >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Matt Liotta > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:22 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [WISPA] [SPAM] One Ring Networks To > >> Rollout > >>>>>>>>>>>> New > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> WiMAX > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Service > >>>>>>>>>>>> Importance: Low > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Steve Stroh wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fixed WiMAX profiles for 3.5 (non-US), but NOT 3.65 GHz in > >> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> US > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> because > >>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the unique "contention protocol" requirements (systems for > >> 3.65 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> GHz > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> should > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be considered proprietary and quite possibly > >> non-interoperable). > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The lower 25Mhz of 3.65Ghz does not have a "contention > >> protocol" > >>>>>>>>>>>> requirement. However, if the radio implements contention > then > >> it > >>>>>>>>>>>> won't > >>>>>>>>>>>> be restricted to the lower 25Mhz. As of today, only WiMAX > >> radios > >>>>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>>>>>>>>> been certified for 3.65Ghz. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -Matt > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> ---- > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ---- > >>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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