The Internet is more than just the US. Oversees, the RBOCs are just another network with good US capacity. Flag, PCCW, NTT, DT, FT, Telia, etc. are no more tied to AT&T than to Level(3). The MSO's purchase a lot of capacity from the non-RBOC networks.
IMHO, the RBOCs will only be able to exert this type of control over their own customers. There will always be alternatives. ---------- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2012 - The End of the Internet > >The RBOCs really don't have any superior standing >> or abilities if you can get to alternate upstream providers. > > I think we can get confused on Consumers versus ISPs. > > ISPs can get to XOs and LEvel3s. But ISPs can't get to consumers. > Consumers can't get to XOs and Level3s. > Daily, more incentives are given to allow the big players to have more > market share. > The problem occurs once they get majority market share. > > What makes you think the content battle won't occur between RBOCs/CABLE > COs > and the level3 / XOs getting blocked. > The XOs and LEvel3s might not be large enough either. > As soon as the monopolies have all teh consumers, and block third party > content on on third party networks, the capacity on third party networks > will become worthless. And then content providers will start going to the > monoplies also. > Its not going to happen overnight. > > However, the whole point on the protesting is that we are not going to let > it happen. We want to make sure people support third party ISPs and fight > legislation that does not protect third party ISPs, so that this whole > topic > will be a mute point. > > We don't want to be the frog. We are smarter. And there is no reason to > jump > out of the water, when we can just turn off the heat. > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 2:16 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2012 - The End of the Internet > > >> My posting was more along the lines of informational and sensitizing >> folks >> to focusing their angst toward the appropriate parties. But even if the >> RBOCs are truly the death stars of our universe, I still do not >> understand >> why folks do not simply bypass them and go directly to the XOs and >> Sprints >> and Level3s of the world. The RBOCs really don't have any superior >> standing >> or abilities if you can get to alternate upstream providers. I really >> think >> the blocking argument is a non issue. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 10:27 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2012 - The End of the Internet >> >> >>> The term to better describe the people who are feared is the term >>> "RBOC", not the "ILEC". I consider you and other smaller ILECs who are >>> WISPs to be sharing many common concerns with the rest of us. I try to >>> draw attention to the fact that RBOCs are generally the ones who are >>> using the bully tactics to overpower all the smaller interests in >>> broadband. I think it is a good idea for us to remember this when we >>> are making generalizations about the telco giants out there who could >>> squash our interests easily. I am certain nobody was intentionally >>> referring to you or your ILEC Chuck. >>> Scriv >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown - 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>>> Hold on there. I am an incumbent as in the "I" in ILEC. I have fiber >>>> directly to Level 3, XO and the option of hitting all the rest. If >>>> there >>>> is >>>> such a thing as "the pipe" I wish someone would point it out to me. >>>> We >>>> don't control anything. If you are a wholesale customer, you are >>>> essentially directly connected to those two upstream providers. Who >>>> are >>>> these incumbents and where is that pipe? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:42 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2012 - The End of the Internet >>>> >>>> >>>>> Sadly, I have to agree. The incumbents want to own the "pipe" so that >>>>> they can control what goes over it and milk as much profit as possible >>>>> from their "pipe". Supposedly it's done to "benefit" the stockholder >>>>> but >>>>> everyone else will be getting screwed. That's the way business is done >>>>> in this day and age. They can't take over the "pipe" all at once >>>>> because >>>>> people would howl bloody murder so they take it away a little bit at a >>>>> time so people don't catch on until it's too late. For more >>>>> perspective, >>>>> one might want to read about "How to boil a frog". >>>>> <http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp> >>>>> >>>>> jack >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>>>> It can and will happen. There have been plans to take over/Hijack >>>>>> the >>>>>> Internet since day 1. Microsoft being one of the early entities that >>>>>> tried >>>>>> and failed to accomplish it, by purposely modifying standard >>>>>> protocols >>>>>> with >>>>>> microsoft standards to be integrated into the TCP Stack. Its happens >>>>>> already >>>>>> with Smart cell phone. Are developers really that stupid that that >>>>>> its >>>>>> taken >>>>>> them 10 years to get a cell ohone that will work on TCPIP, when >>>>>> instead >>>>>> they >>>>>> try to sell proprietary portals to controlled content. Look who is >>>>>> buying >>>>>> up the INternet? Cable companies! Same with Whitespaces, The >>>>>> Broadcasters >>>>>> are proposing to keep the spectrum, so they can be the next Wireless >>>>>> provider. BUyers with years of history with the mentality charging >>>>>> for >>>>>> content, and packaging content based on the the most profitable >>>>>> offer. >>>>>> >>>>>> The only way to stop it is to enable competition. And the only way to >>>>>> keep >>>>>> it enabled is to subsidize it, to make sure it stays. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure they can block all sites. They can steal your Email customers in >>>>>> about >>>>>> 2 weeks if they want to. All they have to do is block your domain, >>>>>> pretending you are a spammer, and refuse to unblock you, and in two >>>>>> weeks >>>>>> your Email customers will be gone. They can do the same with your >>>>>> web >>>>>> content. Who ever has the majorit market share of customer sites >>>>>> with >>>>>> limited options, will be in control. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anti-Trust protection is the failure of the regulators. Bundling will >>>>>> kill >>>>>> everyone else. Verizon is doing it now... Get a discount on your home >>>>>> broadband, if you buy their cell phone service. >>>>>> If Verizon has your cell phone business, they will get your >>>>>> broadband. >>>>>> AT&T >>>>>> had followed sute, or vice versa. Are you a cell phone provider? Will >>>>>> you >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to compete? Why do you think Comcast was interested in >>>>>> investing >>>>>> in >>>>>> Clearwire? Comcast isn't a cell phone carrier yet. They are at a >>>>>> disadvantage. Verizon used to be at a disadvantage because they >>>>>> didn't >>>>>> offer TV. >>>>>> >>>>>> As long as legislators do not distinguish the difference between >>>>>> different >>>>>> communication services/providers, and allows cross platform bundling, >>>>>> Independant providers will die, Not only the Free Internet. Everyone >>>>>> knows >>>>>> the money is in the content, when you control access to what content >>>>>> people >>>>>> can get to. They only want what they know exists, what they are >>>>>> allowed >>>>>> to >>>>>> know is available. The first step to controlling the content, is >>>>>> controlling >>>>>> the pipe, to force the content. >>>>>> >>>>>> And I can tell you for sure, that IPowers message would not have been >>>>>> allowed to air on Verizon Broadband TV. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Victoria Proffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:29 AM >>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2012 - The End of the Internet >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Could this ever happen? >>>>>>> http://ipower.ning.com/netneutrality2 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of my almost 17 years as an ISP, I find it hard to believe. >>>>>>> How could the LECs possibly block all the sites? >>>>>>> If this is true, what could we do to stop it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your thoughts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Victoria Proffer >>>>>>> CEO >>>>>>> St. Louis Broadband >>>>>>> Visit us @ >>>>>>> www.StLBroadband.com >>>>>>> 314-974-5600 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. >>>>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 >>>>> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" >>>>> Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting >>>>> FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile >>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> >>>>> Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
