Business plans based upon credit or federal subsidy seem to be a risky 
proposition right now.

We want nothing to do with USF funds, period.

Our business model and expense/debt/overhead is prepared to weather just 
about anything except federal nastiness.





++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<insert witty tagline here>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Done loving this thread


> True, AT&T and the department of defense were best buddies.  I remember 
> HVAC
> systems in the TD-2 microwave systems that kept heaters and 
> airconditioners
> running all year long so they could simply mix the air to get the temp 
> they
> wanted.  Gold plated system.  But it was a good system.  Part of the
> justification for divestiture and deregulation was that the majority of
> America (using AT&T) had bought and paid for the system several times over
> so it really was a quazi public property. So they did a reverse
> privatization.  And now we all have the system we have.  I like it better
> than back in the old Ma Bell days.  If Western Electric didn't make it, 
> you
> didn't need it.
>
> So it got broke up and competition was supposed to flourish etc etc.  They
> are still experimenting.  Part of the problem is that the S in USF is 
> still
> defined as POTS on copper.  Our company is personally sponsoring a bill in
> our legislature that expands that to broadband.
>
> Look for an FCC ruling in November that may change the rules for all of 
> us.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
>
>
>>I am an avid AT&T long lines historian.
>>
>> AT&T made lots of federal money.  Cost plus.  Thats
>> how most of it worked.  I own some of the big AT&T
>> junctions that included fall out shelters, blast doors, etc,
>> as well as many repeater sites.
>>
>> Those sites were built on tarrifs, that called for their
>> construction in that manner.  Cost plus.  Where AT&T
>> really made their money is buying lots of what went into
>> those sites from their subsidiaries.  Cost plus.
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "jp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
>>
>>
>>>I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of
>>> AT&T Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for
>>> federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example
>>>
>>> http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html
>>>
>>> They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to
>>> be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to
>>> survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a
>>> little with a small community homeland security radio project, AT&T had
>>> the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking.
>>>
>>> If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards
>>> with fat contracts to a monopoly provider.
>>>
>>> I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal
>>> government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was
>>> working for that had this contract had bid against AT&T to get it. If
>>> the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost.
>>>
>>> Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary
>>> cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
>>>> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open
>>>> wire
>>>> pole lines by himself.
>>>> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve 
>>>> his
>>>> system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us 
>>>> government.
>>>> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill 
>>>> lower
>>>> through money that flows from that program to the general fund.
>>>>
>>>> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported
>>>> by
>>>> taxes?
>>>> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.
>>>>
>>>> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there
>>>> was
>>>> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the
>>>> same
>>>> city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to
>>>> tax
>>>> it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
>>>> > Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
>>>> > utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that 
>>>> > means
>>>> > that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
>>>> > than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
>>>> > I really off base here?
>>>> > -RickG
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
>>>> >> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
>>>> >> You do not have to participate.
>>>> >> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
>>>> >> That is not a tax.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between
>>>> >>>> school
>>>> >>>> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and
>>>> >>>> provider
>>>> >>>> of
>>>> >>>> goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not
>>>> >>>> shown
>>>> >>>> any
>>>> >>>> telephone company to be misusing this money.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this
>>>> >>>> money
>>>> >>>> is
>>>> >>>> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is
>>>> >>>> revenue
>>>> >>>> pooling and re-distribution.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
>>>> >>>> discussion.
>>>> >>>> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are 
>>>> >>>> pointing
>>>> >>>> at
>>>> >>>> the
>>>> >>>> local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of
>>>> >>>> the
>>>> >>>> misuse.
>>>> >>>> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots
>>>> >>>> service
>>>> >>>> to
>>>> >>>> rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a
>>>> >>>> business
>>>> >>>> plan
>>>> >>>> around tapping the USF for all it could get.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
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>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
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>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> -- 
>>> /*
>>> Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
>>>    KB1IOJ        |   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
>>> http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Maine    http://www.midcoast.com/
>>> */
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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