Business plans based upon credit or federal subsidy seem to be a risky proposition right now.
We want nothing to do with USF funds, period. Our business model and expense/debt/overhead is prepared to weather just about anything except federal nastiness. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ <insert witty tagline here> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:09 PM Subject: [WISPA] Done loving this thread > True, AT&T and the department of defense were best buddies. I remember > HVAC > systems in the TD-2 microwave systems that kept heaters and > airconditioners > running all year long so they could simply mix the air to get the temp > they > wanted. Gold plated system. But it was a good system. Part of the > justification for divestiture and deregulation was that the majority of > America (using AT&T) had bought and paid for the system several times over > so it really was a quazi public property. So they did a reverse > privatization. And now we all have the system we have. I like it better > than back in the old Ma Bell days. If Western Electric didn't make it, > you > didn't need it. > > So it got broke up and competition was supposed to flourish etc etc. They > are still experimenting. Part of the problem is that the S in USF is > still > defined as POTS on copper. Our company is personally sponsoring a bill in > our legislature that expands that to broadband. > > Look for an FCC ruling in November that may change the rules for all of > us. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!! > > >>I am an avid AT&T long lines historian. >> >> AT&T made lots of federal money. Cost plus. Thats >> how most of it worked. I own some of the big AT&T >> junctions that included fall out shelters, blast doors, etc, >> as well as many repeater sites. >> >> Those sites were built on tarrifs, that called for their >> construction in that manner. Cost plus. Where AT&T >> really made their money is buying lots of what went into >> those sites from their subsidiaries. Cost plus. >> >> >> Don't take your organs to heaven, >> heaven knows we need them down here! >> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "jp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!! >> >> >>>I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of >>> AT&T Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for >>> federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example >>> >>> http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html >>> >>> They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to >>> be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to >>> survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a >>> little with a small community homeland security radio project, AT&T had >>> the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking. >>> >>> If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards >>> with fat contracts to a monopoly provider. >>> >>> I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal >>> government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was >>> working for that had this contract had bid against AT&T to get it. If >>> the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost. >>> >>> Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary >>> cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon. >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote: >>>> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. >>>> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open >>>> wire >>>> pole lines by himself. >>>> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve >>>> his >>>> system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us >>>> government. >>>> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill >>>> lower >>>> through money that flows from that program to the general fund. >>>> >>>> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported >>>> by >>>> taxes? >>>> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T. >>>> >>>> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there >>>> was >>>> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the >>>> same >>>> city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to >>>> tax >>>> it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!! >>>> >>>> >>>> > Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay? >>>> > Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public >>>> > utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that >>>> > means >>>> > that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other >>>> > than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am >>>> > I really off base here? >>>> > -RickG >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. >>>> >> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. >>>> >> You do not have to participate. >>>> >> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. >>>> >> That is not a tax. >>>> >> >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>> >> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!! >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between >>>> >>>> school >>>> >>>> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and >>>> >>>> provider >>>> >>>> of >>>> >>>> goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not >>>> >>>> shown >>>> >>>> any >>>> >>>> telephone company to be misusing this money. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this >>>> >>>> money >>>> >>>> is >>>> >>>> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is >>>> >>>> revenue >>>> >>>> pooling and re-distribution. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this >>>> >>>> discussion. >>>> >>>> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are >>>> >>>> pointing >>>> >>>> at >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> misuse. >>>> >>>> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots >>>> >>>> service >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a >>>> >>>> business >>>> >>>> plan >>>> >>>> around tapping the USF for all it could get. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>> >>>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >> >>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >> >>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >> >>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> > >>>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> > >>>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> -- >>> /* >>> Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL >>> KB1IOJ | Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting >>> http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Maine http://www.midcoast.com/ >>> */ >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! 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