Also the assumption that the TVWS rules are the "same as the rules in the other bands" is also a far, far stretch. The TVWS rules are clearly not "same as the rules in the other bands", not by a long shot.
Chuck McCown wrote: > That is a grey area. Not all 15 dBi yagis are created equal. They all have > differen S11 parameters. > And S11 can cause a "load pull" of a transmitter causing different out of > band signal components. > That is why you will see a list of approved antennas. Including yagis. > > However there is the part of the code that says you can use the same "type" > of lower gain. > And no one at the FCC will stick their neck out far enough to say which one > trumps the other. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:37 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces > > > >> I don't see how what I said was any different than what Blair said, nor how >> what Blair said was any indication of using something that wouldn't be >> approved. >> >> If the rules are the same as the rules in other bands, once you have a 15 >> dBi yagi certified with whatever radio you have, all yagis under 15 dBi >> are >> approved. There's a wealth of TV antennas, cable types, connectors, etc. >> for the TV industry that we could adopt as our own. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:09 AM >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces >> >> >>> Sorry Mike. I try to limit my time to responding only to serious, >>> thoughtful comments. I don't normally respond to smart-a** comments >>> because I just don't have any time to waste on them. >>> >>> I expect a more intelligent contribution from someone who works to >>> achieve "Intelligent" Computing Solutions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>>> You "piece" together an Alvarion or Redline IDU and ODU with a piece of >>>> IF >>>> cable. >>>> >>>> Just because it requires FCC certification (as does everything) doesn't >>>> mean >>>> you can't have antenna selection. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:12 PM >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thanks! Something similar (maybe a little more selective and a little >>>>> more money) might work. :) >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the 75-ohm stuff. It's unlikely that we'll be "piecing" this >>>>> stuff together. It's more likely that it will be all assembled and >>>>> certified as a unit. FCC certification is a requirement. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Blair Davis wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Here is one kind I found quick. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.tinlee.com/bandpass_filters.php?active=1#CFAL >>>>>> >>>>>> Winegaurd and Channel Master both made them for CATV use and for >>>>>> master antenna distribution systems >>>>>> >>>>>> Jack Unger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> That's good. Do you have a url or two? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blair Davis wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in >>>>>>>> 75ohm, for a long time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to >>>>>>>> make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there >>>>>>>> that we can use if they do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jack Unger wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP >>>>>>>>> receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the >>>>>>>>> adjacent >>>>>>>>> channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception >>>>>>>>> range >>>>>>>>> to ****. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> jack >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>> use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st >>>>>>>>>>> adjacent >>>>>>>>>>> channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big "win" for >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> WISP >>>>>>>>>>> industry. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chuck McCown wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will >>>>>>>>>>>> make it >>>>>>>>>>>> possible. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and >>>>>>>>>>>>> compare >>>>>>>>>>>>> it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent >>>>>>>>>>>>> channels. It's >>>>>>>>>>>>> kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in >>>>>>>>>>>>> between. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV >>>>>>>>>>>>> signals >>>>>>>>>>>>> will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters >>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>> interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong.... What's your take on it? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck McCown wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> open >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> adjacent channels. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas, many of the channels are in use by television >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broadcasters and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unused >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> channels available that you can use. In general, the more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rural >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the more channels will be available. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Laura wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> utilized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rural >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superior Alarm/Wireless >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Orleans,La. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.superior1.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Blair Davis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Wyble wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike Hammett wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who would the likely vendors in this space be? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your questions as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but this is the second greatest battle we have come across >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everywhere >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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