I agree, you just need to be as good as or better than the competition. And in many places the competition is still dialup.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Shaping (WAS Article) >I strongly believe that the customer bandwidth packages should be > priced based on your (or that area's cost). I think a lot of the > discussion has lost that mind set. > > Much of the debate here is thinking about 10 megs country wide > broadband statement, 384k here or 2meg there. In my area a 2 meg > package is easily sellable and profitable. It compares with cable/DSL > is the populated areas we don't cover to get the enticement of those > customers that are in our area. In Nowhere, Idaho (pardon the lack of > imaginative creativity) the options are could be 1 meg DSL, dialup and > the local WISP packages of 512k and 1meg. This particular WISP will > not be selling 5 or 10 meg connections in the next couple of years or > likely even ever. > > Not every town gets a 100 story skyscraper with a floor for a data > center and oodles of fiber passsing through. How can one offer the > same service when the technological progression of this example and > Nowhere are a decade apart? > > In cable's case of DOCSIS 3 and HD channels - how many homes are > capable of getting that 50 meg connection Comcast boasts? Or the > dozens of HD channels? I'm positive those customers in the most rural > areas with a country block between houses will receive these new > features much later then that of people living in a city with > thousands of people in a single block. Every one is in business to do > business and make money. It may be one's goal to feed their family or > raise enough money to buy their dream house and car or even just to be > able to grow the business, sell it, and start the process over. > > All we can do is our learn what we can and improve our practices with > that knowledge. The cable company is not going to upgrade the 10 > customers in Nowhere begore the thousand in BigOCity - it only make > sense to secure the revenue from those thousand with other options > then those 10 that have not other options. A WISP can (should) not > sell 3 megs to each customer when the bottleneck is 3 megs. QoS can > do great things but it simply can not turn 3 megs into > customers*3megs. > > I am done ranting, thank you for reading! > > On 12/4/08, RickG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I have WRAP boards on all towers that provide limited bandwidth >> shaping. I just recently installed a Mikrotik firewall (and love it). >> It's shaping and rules cover all customers. As far as bandwidth hits, >> the previous owner oversold and overmarketed the amount of bandwidth >> in order to gain subscribers (i.e. premium 3Mbps accounts when he only >> had 3Mbps). Since bandwidth is very expensive and difficult to get >> here, this has led to a sluggish network that I am having difficulty >> resolving. Therefore, the customers have been complaining. The good >> news is that after getting very creative, I have overturned some new >> options but the cost is still a strain on the budget. My biggest >> frustration is the never ending question: What will it take? It >> appears that more and more people want constant multi-megabit speeds >> on demand for less than $50/month. The oversubscription rate on a >> $600/month T1 no longer provides for a valid business model. Heck, my >> $500/month 5Mbps connection form Time Warner became quickly saturated >> once I put it in. I expect my new 11Mbps connection for $600 will do >> the same. The interesting part is that I continue to get pressure for >> faster speed plans therefore pressure to make the same mistake my >> predecessor made - offer plans with speeds that max out my capacity. >> -RickG >> >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Steve Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Rick, (everyone) >>> >>> So from that statement it appears that you are not using any bandwidth >>> limiting ore shaping at your AP or NOC. >>> Question 1. Is that for all Client levels or just your premium service. >>> Question 2. If you don't manage limits, was that always how you've >>> always done it? If not what made you decide to do it this way and what >>> kind of upstream hit did you take. >>> >>> I am considering giving more speed but I am concerned about the >>> additional cost to me for abusers. >>> >>> Steve Barnes >>> RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>> Behalf Of RickG >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:04 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article >>> >>> Every SHOULD know that most connections are "shared bandwidth". The >>> keyword is SHOULD. But, peole only hear what they want to and everyone >>> I talk to that isnt a techie thinks they get the speed they bought for >>> $50 or less all the time! The marketing gurus have screwed up again >>> just like the "unlimited use" policy fiasco. So, I always try to >>> educate my users but they percieve this as my issue and that my >>> service is inferiro with cable or dsl. Of course, thats what feeds the >>> marketing hype with the speed in the first place. So, what to do? >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:41 AM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> Dear Mike, >>>> >>>> You miss the point and possibly so does Josh. Because an AP can >>> deliver >>>> "x" amount of throughput during a speed test between two location does >>>> not mean that the same AP can deliver that amount of throughput to all >>>> the customers simultaneously. The AP's throughput is shared between >>> all >>>> of the end-users. When the AP maxes out, some (possibly all) of those >>>> end-users must slow down. Some WISPs do not understand this and thus >>>> they end up over-promising throughput and disappointing their >>> customers. >>>> WISPs need to understand this or they will fail in this business and >>>> give other WISPs a black eye in the process. Nobody is getting beat up >>>> here; this has nothing to do with personalities. It has everything to >>> do >>>> with the physics of data communications behavior. Everybody needs to >>>> understand the true limits of their system. >>>> >>>> Why is this? Because the "air" is a shared medium. Throughput delivery >>>> takes real-world time in intervals we call "time-slots". You can only >>>> carry so much throughput during one time-slot. There area only so many >>>> time-slots (fractions of a second) in each second. This is why >>>> throughput is limited. Only so many users can be on one AP at the same >>>> time if they are requesting a large amount of the available AP >>>> throughput. A lightly-loaded system may appear to be able to deliver >>> max >>>> throughput simultaneously to those few customers but when the AP is >>>> heavily loaded with users who are vying for a lot of throughput >>>> simultaneously then most of them will need to slow down because not >>>> everyone will get all the time slots they need to carry the high >>>> throughput (ex: video streaming) levels that they are requesting. >>>> >>>> Don't make this personal; that simply detracts from the very real >>>> technical limits that a successful WISP must understand in order to >>>> succeed and survive. >>>> >>>> jack >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Hammett wrote: >>>>> I didn't get that at all. >>>>> >>>>> It seems as though when anyone on this list suggests going faster >>> than 2 megabits, they get beat up. Sorry, Charlie, BA-II was outdated >>> long ago. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Jack Unger >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:55 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So how many of your customers can you serve 26 Mb to SIMULTANEOUSLY >>> from the same AP? It sounds like you are saying that you can serve all >>> of them 26 Mb simultaneously. >>>>> >>>>> Josh Luthman wrote: >>>>> Each customer has an MT - capable of 26mbps to their home. Each >>> tower has a >>>>> Redline to it, throughput as high as the key purchased (54 megs). >>>>> >>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>> >>>>> Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, >>> poorly. >>>>> --- Henry Spencer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Josh Luthman wrote: >>>>> >>>>> My 5.8 customers can do 10+ megs... >>>>> >>>>> The estimated throughput on the MTs is 30 to 31 megs. Real bandwidth >>> tests >>>>> show 26 megs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So do you deploy one MT for each customer or do you share that 26 Mb >>>>> between all of your customers on that one access point? >>>>> >>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>> >>>>> Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, >>> poorly. >>>>> --- Henry Spencer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And which telco is this going to bail out? Money from Congress to >>>>> industry = pay off Unions for votes. >>>>> >>>>> We will never, ever, ever, ever qualify. >>>>> >>>>> Another headliner article I read on this will redefine "broadband" as >>> over >>>>> 10 Meg. >>>>> >>>>> Nothing like disqualifying almost the entire WISP industry... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>> <insert witty tagline here> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:20 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jeff, >>>>> >>>>> Just to let you know, I am in Washington DC this week participating >>> in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> events below. WISPA has signed on as a supporter of the Call to >>> Action >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> define the Nationwide Broadband Strategy. It was great to see all >>> the >>>>> players of the Broadband Industry working together to attempt to >>> bring >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> US back up to the top of the Broadband Access ladder. It will be a >>> busy >>>>> three months while this strategy is defined and presented to the >>> Obama >>>>> Administration. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> >>>>> Rick Harnish >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On >>>>> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:21 PM >>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Article >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR200812 >>> 0203 >>>>> >>>>> 164_pf.html >>>>> >>>>> New Coalition Drawing Up Nationwide Broadband Access Strategy >>>>> >>>>> By Cecilia Kang >>>>> Washington Post Staff Writer >>>>> Wednesday, December 3, 2008; D03 >>>>> >>>>> President-elect Barack Obama has said getting affordable high-speed >>>>> Internet >>>>> service to every American home would create jobs, fuel economic >>> growth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> spark innovation. Yesterday, representatives from technology and >>>>> telecommunications companies, labor unions and public interest groups >>>>> frequently at odds with one another agreed to provide the next >>> president >>>>> with a roadmap for how to accomplish those goals. >>>>> >>>>> That map could include tax breaks, low-interest loans, subsidies and >>>>> public-private partnerships to encourage more investments in >>> upgrading >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> building out high-speed networks, representatives from Google, AT&T >>> and >>>>> public interest group Free Press said during a panel discussion on >>>>> broadband >>>>> policy that also served as a coming-out party for their newly formed >>>>> coalition. >>>>> >>>>> The details of how to meet those goals still must be worked out by >>> the >>>>> group, whose aim is to bring more affordable high-speed Internet >>> access >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> every consumer. >>>>> >>>>> Many of the group members have been at odds with each other on >>> whether >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> government should set limits on how much spectrum a company can >>> hold, the >>>>> use of unlicensed devices on fallow broadcast airwaves and net >>>>> neutrality -- >>>>> the notion that network operators should be prevented from blocking >>> or >>>>> slowing Internet traffic. The formation of the group is an effort to >>> move >>>>> beyond their differences. >>>>> >>>>> "The coalition is a positive in that it demonstrates we agree that we >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> have >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> broadband problem, which not everyone was willing to admit to two >>> years >>>>> ago," said Ben Scott, policy director at Free Press and a member of >>> the >>>>> group. "The key is whether we'll see this group produce policy >>> solutions >>>>> that will require difficult choices." >>>>> >>>>> At stake is the nation's ability to compete technologically and >>>>> economically, the group said. The United States has dropped from the >>> top >>>>> 10 >>>>> nations for broadband access, speeds and price in the last several >>> years. >>>>> The coalition is pushing for a federal plan that would provide access >>> to >>>>> high-speed Internet service, much as the government did with >>> electricity, >>>>> roads and phone service. >>>>> >>>>> Obama famously used the Internet for outreach during his campaign and >>>>> received 370,000 donations online. He's proposed using blogs, social >>>>> networking tools and community Web pages known as wikis to connect >>>>> citizens >>>>> to government agencies. And Obama has argued for massive upgrades to >>>>> technology infrastructure such as high-speed, or broadband, Internet. >>>>> >>>>> So far the coalition's plans to increase broadband usage mirrors >>> Obama's >>>>> plan, but there could be disagreement over deployment, analysts said. >>>>> >>>>> Communications Workers of America President Larry Cohen said the >>> union >>>>> supports a proposal by Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) to >>> increase >>>>> definitions for broadband to 10 megabits per second for downloads by >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2010. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The current definition for broadband speed in the United States is >>> 768 >>>>> kilobits per second downstream, which is far below standards in many >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> other >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> nations. >>>>> >>>>> Achieving that goal at prices acceptable to consumers, however, would >>> be >>>>> expensive for telecom and cable network operators. Some in the >>> coalition >>>>> could push for laws that would achieve lower prices and higher speeds >>>>> through more wireless and telecom competitors, but that could cause >>>>> further >>>>> disagreement among members, Scott said. >>>>> >>>>> Some have already suggested requesting funds from the federal >>> economic >>>>> stimulus plan for broadband deployment. Yesterday, an aide to House >>>>> Speaker >>>>> Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Pelosi was in favor of that idea. >>>>> >>>>> AT&T chief lobbyist Jim Cicconi said the company has moved closer to >>> the >>>>> view of public interest groups and Google that the Web should be open >>> for >>>>> all users without discrimination of technology and content on their >>>>> network. >>>>> But unlike Free Press and consumer groups, AT&T opposes new laws or >>> rules >>>>> on >>>>> net neutrality, saying Federal Communications Commission rules are >>>>> sufficient, and any violation should be handled on a case-by-case >>> basis. >>>>> >>>>> "There will be significant outstanding debates that will be very >>> tough >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> there will still be daylight between the groups on many, many >>> issues," >>>>> said >>>>> Rebecca Arbogast, an analyst at investment firm Stifel Nicolaus. "But >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> both >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> sides are in a phase right now where they are emphasizing how much >>> they >>>>> share in terms of their views on what is an appropriate framework for >>>>> looking at this issue." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jeff Broadwick >>>>> Sales Manager, ImageStream >>>>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) >>>>> +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) >>>>> +1 574-935-8488 (Fax) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. >>>>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 >>>>> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" >>>>> WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? >>>>> For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping >>>>> FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> >>>>> Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. >>>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 >>>> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" >>>> WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? >>>> For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping >>>> FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> >>>> Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > -- > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --- Henry Spencer > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
