I'm not so sure I would go hunting down the Netflix users and tacking on that fee, but it is an option...
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:33 AM, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 208.111.168.0/24 belongs to limelight. So far this is where all of the > data traces go back to .. FYI ;) > > One thing, this may start something, but, why not send customers a note > with their next bill, netflix subscribers, due to the high usage netflix > puts on the entire network, we will start charging for netflix usage. > This will be 5.99 extra :) or maybe more. Easy enough to do. > > ------------------------------ > * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services* > 314-735-0270 > http://www.linktechs.net <http://www.linktechs.net/> > > */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training > <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>/* > > > > Travis Johnson wrote: > > I'm not sure this fixes anything either. Even if you cap people at > > 1Mbps, if they are watching a movie, they are using that 1Mbps for 2 > > hours constant. My cost on that 1Mbps is $40, the same price I am > > selling the service to them for... yet I have all the overhead and > > expenses to keep it running. > > > > I may have to buy a Netflix box or an Xbox-360 just to see what IP > > blocks these devices are pulling from, then I will just start throttling > > the entire netblock to each service... rather than trying to control > > each customer. Allocate 5Mbps to all of Netflix's IP's on my network... > > then if people want to get better streaming service, they can pay me to > > un-throttle their connection. ;) > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > Brian Webster wrote: > > > >> I like the idea Chuck and others have used in regards to shaping. Give > them > >> a wide open connection for a short burst of time and then throttle them > back > >> to what they are paying for (say a minute or so). This will give them > >> awesome performance for things like web pages and speed tests and most > >> email, yet when they decide to be hogs using technology that is a > constant > >> demand on the connection, it won't cripple your network. This in > conjunction > >> with bandwidth caps should keep you solvent until the backhaul > >> infrastructure in the US gets more robust, more accessible, and cheaper. > >> Until then you just need to tell the clients the basic economic truth of > how > >> much constant internet really costs. Comcast and others are starting to > bit > >> cap their services so they must be seeing the same things you are. Show > the > >> customers your bill for your backhaul and ask them if they would like to > pay > >> that each month. Even those on FIOS and other Fiber technologies see > those > >> realities once their internet destination goes outside the private fiber > >> circuits. FIOS may be fast but it sure exposes the sites and locations > that > >> don't have huge pipes serving them. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thank You, > >> Brian Webster > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ]On > >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson > >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:15 PM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Shaping (WAS Article) > >> > >> > >> Rick, > >> > >> Just for what it's worth, we are seeing an increase in overall usage > as > >> well. We have been in the ISP business since 1994. It was only about a > year > >> ago that we went over 100Mbps of incoming traffic during peak time... > and > >> just today, we peaked at 176Mbps. So in a year's time we increased by > 75% > >> the amount of bandwidth usage by our customers. Of course we added new > >> customers, etc. but that was at the same rate we have been adding > customers > >> for 5+ years. > >> > >> Solution? There isn't a good one. I remember people saying things like > "I > >> just leave my customers wide open because then they will use what they > need > >> and then get off, so they are online less" and stuff like that. Those > days > >> are long gone. If you give people a 5Mbps connection, they will use > 5Mbps. > >> And now, rather than just doing what they were doing, they will just > start > >> more downloads or movies or TV because they can. > >> > >> Travis > >> Microserv > >> > >> RickG wrote: > >> I have WRAP boards on all towers that provide limited bandwidth > >> shaping. I just recently installed a Mikrotik firewall (and love it). > >> It's shaping and rules cover all customers. As far as bandwidth hits, > >> the previous owner oversold and overmarketed the amount of bandwidth > >> in order to gain subscribers (i.e. premium 3Mbps accounts when he only > >> had 3Mbps). Since bandwidth is very expensive and difficult to get > >> here, this has led to a sluggish network that I am having difficulty > >> resolving. Therefore, the customers have been complaining. The good > >> news is that after getting very creative, I have overturned some new > >> options but the cost is still a strain on the budget. My biggest > >> frustration is the never ending question: What will it take? It > >> appears that more and more people want constant multi-megabit speeds > >> on demand for less than $50/month. The oversubscription rate on a > >> $600/month T1 no longer provides for a valid business model. Heck, my > >> $500/month 5Mbps connection form Time Warner became quickly saturated > >> once I put it in. I expect my new 11Mbps connection for $600 will do > >> the same. The interesting part is that I continue to get pressure for > >> faster speed plans therefore pressure to make the same mistake my > >> predecessor made - offer plans with speeds that max out my capacity. > >> -RickG > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Steve Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Rick, (everyone) > >> > >> So from that statement it appears that you are not using any bandwidth > >> limiting ore shaping at your AP or NOC. > >> Question 1. Is that for all Client levels or just your premium service. > >> Question 2. If you don't manage limits, was that always how you've > >> always done it? If not what made you decide to do it this way and what > >> kind of upstream hit did you take. > >> > >> I am considering giving more speed but I am concerned about the > >> additional cost to me for abusers. > >> > >> Steve Barnes > >> RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > >> Behalf Of RickG > >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:04 AM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > >> > >> Every SHOULD know that most connections are "shared bandwidth". The > >> keyword is SHOULD. But, peole only hear what they want to and everyone > >> I talk to that isnt a techie thinks they get the speed they bought for > >> $50 or less all the time! The marketing gurus have screwed up again > >> just like the "unlimited use" policy fiasco. So, I always try to > >> educate my users but they percieve this as my issue and that my > >> service is inferiro with cable or dsl. Of course, thats what feeds the > >> marketing hype with the speed in the first place. So, what to do? > >> -RickG > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:41 AM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Dear Mike, > >> > >> You miss the point and possibly so does Josh. Because an AP can > >> deliver > >> "x" amount of throughput during a speed test between two location > does > >> not mean that the same AP can deliver that amount of throughput to all > >> the customers simultaneously. The AP's throughput is shared between > >> all > >> of the end-users. When the AP maxes out, some (possibly all) of > those > >> end-users must slow down. Some WISPs do not understand this and thus > >> they end up over-promising throughput and disappointing their > >> customers. > >> WISPs need to understand this or they will fail in this business and > >> give other WISPs a black eye in the process. Nobody is getting beat up > >> here; this has nothing to do with personalities. It has everything to > >> do > >> with the physics of data communications behavior. Everybody needs to > >> understand the true limits of their system. > >> > >> Why is this? Because the "air" is a shared medium. Throughput delivery > >> takes real-world time in intervals we call "time-slots". You can only > >> carry so much throughput during one time-slot. There area only so many > >> time-slots (fractions of a second) in each second. This is why > >> throughput is limited. Only so many users can be on one AP at the same > >> time if they are requesting a large amount of the available AP > >> throughput. A lightly-loaded system may appear to be able to deliver > >> max > >> throughput simultaneously to those few customers but when the AP is > >> heavily loaded with users who are vying for a lot of throughput > >> simultaneously then most of them will need to slow down because not > >> everyone will get all the time slots they need to carry the high > >> throughput (ex: video streaming) levels that they are requesting. > >> > >> Don't make this personal; that simply detracts from the very real > >> technical limits that a successful WISP must understand in order to > >> succeed and survive. > >> > >> jack > >> > >> > >> Mike Hammett wrote: > >> I didn't get that at all. > >> > >> It seems as though when anyone on this list suggests going faster > >> than 2 megabits, they get beat up. Sorry, Charlie, BA-II was > >> outdated > >> long ago. > >> ----- > >> Mike Hammett > >> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >> http://www.ics-il.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> From: Jack Unger > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:55 PM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > >> > >> > >> So how many of your customers can you serve 26 Mb to SIMULTANEOUSLY > >> from the same AP? It sounds like you are saying that you can > serve > >> all > >> of them 26 Mb simultaneously. > >> Josh Luthman wrote: > >> Each customer has an MT - capable of 26mbps to their home. Each > >> tower has a > >> Redline to it, throughput as high as the key purchased (54 megs). > >> > >> Josh Luthman > >> Office: 937-552-2340 > >> Direct: 937-552-2343 > >> 1100 Wayne St > >> Suite 1337 > >> Troy, OH 45373 > >> > >> Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, > >> poorly. > >> --- Henry Spencer > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> Josh Luthman wrote: > >> > >> My 5.8 customers can do 10+ megs... > >> > >> The estimated throughput on the MTs is 30 to 31 megs. Real bandwidth > >> tests > >> show 26 megs. > >> > >> > >> So do you deploy one MT for each customer or do you share that 26 Mb > >> between all of your customers on that one access point? > >> > >> Josh Luthman > >> Office: 937-552-2340 > >> Direct: 937-552-2343 > >> 1100 Wayne St > >> Suite 1337 > >> Troy, OH 45373 > >> > >> Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, > >> poorly. > >> --- Henry Spencer > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> And which telco is this going to bail out? Money from Congress to > >> industry = pay off Unions for votes. > >> > >> We will never, ever, ever, ever qualify. > >> > >> Another headliner article I read on this will redefine "broadband" as > >> over > >> 10 Meg. > >> > >> Nothing like disqualifying almost the entire WISP industry... > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> <insert witty tagline here> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> <[email protected] > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:20 AM > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Jeff, > >> > >> Just to let you know, I am in Washington DC this week participating > >> in > >> the > >> > >> > >> events below. WISPA has signed on as a supporter of the Call to > >> Action > >> to > >> > >> > >> define the Nationwide Broadband Strategy. It was great to see all > >> the > >> players of the Broadband Industry working together to attempt to > >> bring > >> the > >> > >> > >> US back up to the top of the Broadband Access ladder. It will be a > >> busy > >> three months while this strategy is defined and presented to the > >> Obama > >> Administration. > >> > >> Respectfully, > >> > >> Rick Harnish > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On > >> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:21 PM > >> To: 'WISPA General List' > >> Subject: [WISPA] Article > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR20 > >> 0812 > >> 0203 > >> 164_pf.html > >> > >> New Coalition Drawing Up Nationwide Broadband Access Strategy > >> > >> By Cecilia Kang > >> Washington Post Staff Writer > >> Wednesday, December 3, 2008; D03 > >> > >> President-elect Barack Obama has said getting affordable high-speed > >> Internet > >> service to every American home would create jobs, fuel economic > >> growth > >> and > >> > >> > >> spark innovation. Yesterday, representatives from technology and > >> telecommunications companies, labor unions and public interest groups > >> frequently at odds with one another agreed to provide the next > >> president > >> with a roadmap for how to accomplish those goals. > >> > >> That map could include tax breaks, low-interest loans, subsidies and > >> public-private partnerships to encourage more investments in > >> upgrading > >> and > >> > >> > >> building out high-speed networks, representatives from Google, AT&T > >> and > >> public interest group Free Press said during a panel discussion on > >> broadband > >> policy that also served as a coming-out party for their newly formed > >> coalition. > >> > >> The details of how to meet those goals still must be worked out by > >> the > >> group, whose aim is to bring more affordable high-speed Internet > >> access > >> to > >> > >> > >> every consumer. > >> > >> Many of the group members have been at odds with each other on > >> whether > >> the > >> > >> > >> government should set limits on how much spectrum a company can > >> hold, the > >> use of unlicensed devices on fallow broadcast airwaves and net > >> neutrality -- > >> the notion that network operators should be prevented from blocking > >> or > >> slowing Internet traffic. The formation of the group is an effort to > >> move > >> beyond their differences. > >> > >> "The coalition is a positive in that it demonstrates we agree that we > >> > >> > >> have > >> > >> > >> a > >> broadband problem, which not everyone was willing to admit to two > >> years > >> ago," said Ben Scott, policy director at Free Press and a member of > >> the > >> group. "The key is whether we'll see this group produce policy > >> solutions > >> that will require difficult choices." > >> > >> At stake is the nation's ability to compete technologically and > >> economically, the group said. The United States has dropped from the > >> top > >> 10 > >> nations for broadband access, speeds and price in the last several > >> years. > >> The coalition is pushing for a federal plan that would provide > access > >> to > >> high-speed Internet service, much as the government did with > >> electricity, > >> roads and phone service. > >> > >> Obama famously used the Internet for outreach during his campaign and > >> received 370,000 donations online. He's proposed using blogs, social > >> networking tools and community Web pages known as wikis to connect > >> citizens > >> to government agencies. And Obama has argued for massive upgrades to > >> technology infrastructure such as high-speed, or broadband, Internet. > >> > >> So far the coalition's plans to increase broadband usage mirrors > >> Obama's > >> plan, but there could be disagreement over deployment, analysts > said. > >> > >> Communications Workers of America President Larry Cohen said the > >> union > >> supports a proposal by Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) to > >> increase > >> definitions for broadband to 10 megabits per second for downloads by > >> > >> > >> 2010. > >> > >> > >> The current definition for broadband speed in the United States is > >> 768 > >> kilobits per second downstream, which is far below standards in many > >> > >> > >> other > >> > >> > >> nations. > >> > >> Achieving that goal at prices acceptable to consumers, however, would > >> be > >> expensive for telecom and cable network operators. Some in the > >> coalition > >> could push for laws that would achieve lower prices and higher > speeds > >> through more wireless and telecom competitors, but that could cause > >> further > >> disagreement among members, Scott said. > >> > >> Some have already suggested requesting funds from the federal > >> economic > >> stimulus plan for broadband deployment. Yesterday, an aide to House > >> Speaker > >> Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Pelosi was in favor of that idea. > >> > >> AT&T chief lobbyist Jim Cicconi said the company has moved closer to > >> the > >> view of public interest groups and Google that the Web should be > open > >> for > >> all users without discrimination of technology and content on their > >> network. > >> But unlike Free Press and consumer groups, AT&T opposes new laws or > >> rules > >> on > >> net neutrality, saying Federal Communications Commission rules are > >> sufficient, and any violation should be handled on a case-by-case > >> basis. > >> "There will be significant outstanding debates that will be very > >> tough > >> and > >> > >> > >> there will still be daylight between the groups on many, many > >> issues," > >> said > >> Rebecca Arbogast, an analyst at investment firm Stifel Nicolaus. "But > >> > >> > >> both > >> > >> > >> sides are in a phase right now where they are emphasizing how much > >> they > >> share in terms of their views on what is an appropriate framework > for > >> looking at this issue." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Jeff Broadwick > >> Sales Manager, ImageStream > >> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) > >> +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) > >> +1 574-935-8488 (Fax) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ---- > >> ---- > >> ---- > >> WISPA Wants You! 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