What I'm having a hard time understanding is why we can't just have both? I fully agree WISPs can;t rely on regulators, and we must survive by our own control. But I see no reason that simultaneously we can;t also influence polititions for our mutual benefit.
Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > It's a long and quite off topic discussion to hash this out. > > But to suggest that "not trusting government" is the equivalent of being > an > advocate to anarchy is absurd. > > The MOST corrupt and self serving institution in this country is Congress. > After you've figured that out, it begins to make sense why our founding > fathers said that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty". It's > also > the price of just continuing to exist. > > Nowhere, at no time have I advocated anarchy, or anything remotely similar > to it. But, that's the repeated meme, probably just to squelch the > conversation. But I have noticed a very serious trend. It seems that > people mistake a cordial working relationship with "security of ideas or > status quo" in DC. There's no such thing. Assurances of future events > or > favors or policies is absolutely NOT something you can put any faith in. > Those change like the wind. Those very people you think might be > influenced to be on your side, are just as likely to write a rule and > enforce it which kills the whole industry, if it can earn them a headline > that makes them look good. > > Does that make them "evil". No, it makes them politicians, operating in > both a political culture and a society that has accepted this behavior as > normal. > > To use this pollyanna type of attitude that does anything but recognize > the > serious danger that government poses to the welfare of the people is to be > foolish. What may influence them today, can completely vanish with the > headlines of tomorrow's newspaper, and efforts to influence policymakers > or > work out some kind "tit for tat" or quid pro quo can vanish faster than > dry > ice in a blast furnace. We must never allow our future to be dependent > upon the whims of regulators. > > What is needed, is to get in writing, to get codified, the means by which > we > can exist unmolested, and then after that point, to then seek to convince > them that certian policies can do good and others do not. My complaint > is > that I see nobody defending our ability to exist, while at the same time, > trading on "goodwill" to get favors and money. That's a terrible > mistake, > in my estimation. A fundamental and near fatal flaw which can do nothing > but harm us in the long run. The attitudinal change in DC that's about > to > occur, is that they not only have the right, but the OBLIGATION to choose > who exists and who does not. Who wins, who loses, and the primary > motivation is now to take from industry to give to the people in exchange > for votes. If you don't think that can destroy us, I dunno what you think > can. > > Seriously, every industry has descended on Washington DC with their > buckets > in hand, lined up behind the spigots. Our secret here, is not to be an > "also ran" but stand out. We don't need handouts. We're citizens first, > taxpayers second, and businesses third. Be responsible adults, stand out > like a beacon already. Advocate for industry subsidy and whatnot to END. > Be a voice of reason in today's mad rush to insanity... > > Please. > > Our nation's future depends on being men and women of character and > integrity and being responsible, and differentiate ourselves from the big > guys with the big buckets demanding money. Contrast us to them. We > can. > They can't. Exploit their wanting money. If there was EVER a time an > industry could make an impact, by showing up and saying " We're here to > build up the country, don't need subsidies and handouts, and these guys > are > advocating for it, we are not, and don't think they should either", this > is > it. "We're here and doing what needs to be done. We just need some > hurdles > cleared" is far more a worthy goal, and likely to stand out, than to be > centered in the policywonking that's aimed at "getting a slice of the > pie". > > Is this political? I suppose it is in some way. But no more or less > than > the "argue a position to possibly benefit from loans and grants" that's > been > repeated here. > > OH, but I forgot. That's too extreme for "normal" people. > > Thank God those "extreme" people had some guts way back when. I just > wish > to honor them and the enduring ideas they left for us. They're not out > of > date yet. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > <insert witty tagline here> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > > >>> If you're trying to convince me that DC is my friend, or that government >>> can >>> be trusted in the slightest... good luck There's a whole world history >>> to >>> prove that notion the b iggest folly ever committed by man. >> >> I have to ask... do you really think Anarchy is the answer? That >> everything >> the government does is wrong? That the government is suppressing your >> rights? I'd respond line by line but I am sure Butch will do a much >> better >> job... >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:20 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article >>> >>> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> <insert witty tagline here> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:44 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article >>> >>> >>> > On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> > >>> >>And I won't be. I was once and put money into WISPA. When I think >>> >>WISPA has the interests of all WISPS in mind when they act, then >>> >>I'll financially support it. When WISPA goes to washington DC and >>> >>represents to them, that we actually WANT to be regulated, I cannot >>> > >>> > When did this ever happen? >>> >>> It did. Long ago. I supported WISPA until someone spilled the beans. >>> >>> > >>> > There are some regulations that are good for WISPs. Just ONE HUGE >>> > example are the regulations that govern the FREE use of spectrum >>> > under the Part-15 rules. It's funny that I've never heard you go >>> > off the deep end about THOSE regulations. Either way, that is one >>> > example of a good regulation. >>> >>> Hmmm... Allowing the people to use a public commodity. Wow. I feel so >>> privileged. NOT! No, the knotheads in DC OWE US THE USE OF IT. >>> >>> Wow, what a strange concept. When did we forget, we're the boss and >>> the >>> owners, they're the designated stewards? >>> >>> > >>> > In terms of specific impact that WISPA has had that benefits ALL >>> > wisp operators (even those like you that don't like regulation) >>> > there are 2 MAJOR examples that I will suggest. You are probably >>> > the only one "in the room" who will not like them, but then I >>> > suspect you are often in that situation. The first example is the >>> > most recent HUGE WIN for WISPs in the TVWS debates. I don't know if >>> > you noticed, but in the R&O, do a search for "WISPA" and then do a >>> > search for "GOOGLE". You'll quickly see that just based on the >>> > number of "mentions" that WISPA had a HUGE impact on the ruling. >>> > That spectrum is free for you to use UNLICENSED (NOT UNREGULATED), >>> > even if you don't support WISPA. Another example is CALEA. I know >>> > that in YOUR world, CALEA isn't something that you have to comply >>> > with, but the rest of us that live in a world shared by ~300Million >>> > other Americans, we DO have to comply. WISPA could have gone to DC >>> > and said "this isn't fair", but it would NOT have changed the law. >>> > Moving beyond that, we have developed a REAL solution that is very >>> > affordable for ANYONE to follow. There is currently no software >>> > supporting it, but that is under development and will surface in the >>> > near future. >>> >>> Wow. Effective and reasonable ideas could have been dreamed up and >>> proposed and made into law by now. But nope, we're still determined >>> that >>> pounding a square peg into a round hole "just has to be". >>> >>> > >>> > One of the reasons WISPA doesn't take the approaches you suggest is >>> > that your ideas are SO far out of line with reality that there is no >>> > way to meet you on common ground. Perhaps the muddy frogs can, but >>> > real people cannot. >>> >>> Why, Thanks Butch. I feel ever so much better now. >>> >>> > >>> >>When the attitude that "consolidation and shaking out the smaller >>> >>players" is a good thing goes away, then there's on more barrier >>> >>down. It may not be >>> > >>> > What's bad about building and selling? You don't like money either? >>> >>> Hmmm... words have a specific meaning, I said precisely what I meant. >>> When the attitude that the smaller players need to go away is shaken out >>> of >>> WISPA, that will be a good thing. >>> >>> > >>> >>Sorry, you lost me with that one. Small business and "mom and pop" >>> >>are the backbone of our economy and make up a huge segment of all >>> >>the jobs in the whole country. >>> > >>> > Yeah..my "mom and pop" raised me and fed me, but if I can find a way >>> > to move my "mom and pop" operation into something bigger, then why >>> > is that bad? Look at companies like McDonalds, Wendy's and even >>> > WAL-MART. These companies were ALL "mom and pop" operations at one >>> > time. Personally, I'd not complain if my business grew to the size >>> > of any one of those examples. There are examples just like this in >>> > the WISP industry, but I'll leave that as an exercise for you to >>> > find. >>> >>> LOL, how'd you ever construe what I said into being against people >>> building >>> whatever size they want or think they can be? >>> >>> I'm just recalling a specific thread on this list that's now 2 or 3 >>> years >>> old, about how this industry will be much better and more representable >>> in >>> Washington when it is "mature" and not a whole lot of smaller players. >>> Someone who is influential in WISPA was the source of this attitude, >>> too. >>> >>> This particular person seemed to be embarrassed to consider representing >>> this industry as having mom and pop type members. >>> >>> > >>> >>Every other industry organization unabashedly opposes everything >>> >>that costs them or can harm them, but the leadership continues to >>> >>insist that somehow playing nice and agreeing to mandates and costs >>> >>will buy us favor... All that happens is the mandates and >>> >>agreements happen, the regulators change and all the "goodwill" >>> >>supposedly bought evaportes, with the precedents and whatnot >>> >>remain. Until they understand that Washington DC is NEVER our >>> >>friend, never to be trusted, then we're just sheep waiting to get >>> >>shorn. >>> > >>> > This is just not correct. I'm not going to try to correct you on >>> > it, but wanted it to be in the archives for anyone who is interested >>> > to know that the TRUTH (of which your messages was NOT an example) >>> > is available in the archives. >>> >>> If you're trying to convince me that DC is my friend, or that government >>> can >>> be trusted in the slightest... good luck There's a whole world history >>> to >>> prove that notion the b iggest folly ever committed by man. >>> >>> > >>> >>Sorry, that's just my opinion and it's not subject to "revision and >>> >>extension". >>> > >>> > If you were to revise your opinions, how would we all know what we >>> > were doing wrong? Please...never change for the sake of us all... >>> > >>> >>And no, don't tell me to "run for WISPA office". >>> > >>> > I don't think I've EVER seen anyone ask you for this. Besides, as a >>> > non-member you can't. If you decided to join and you think your >>> > opinions are held by even a small group of people, and that you CAN >>> > convince the other board members and you can have some impact on our >>> > policies. >>> > >>> >>Agitators like myself don't win popularity contests. >>> > >>> > I'm not sure "agitator" is the right word...It is something of a >>> > cop-out, actually. >>> > >>> >>I prefer poking a stick in the hornets nest, to letting stuff go >>> >>along quietly. I've never found that emulating someone else is the >>> >>sure-fire way to beat them. That is not conducive to winning >>> >>anything. >>> > >>> > And which part of ANY of your messages posted to any list I've EVER >>> > seen you post to actually IS "conducive to winning"? What is it you >>> > want to win? If you are attempting to sway opinion, then why not >>> > post some legitimate arguments (note the word "legitimate" does not >>> > mean the same thing as "wild ranting") and convince people you are >>> > right? >>> >>> It really would not matter. There's sufficient numbers of people who >>> brand >>> anything said by me as wild ranting, so... Let them think that. Maybe >>> I'll >>> just add some fuel to the fire for my own entertainment's sake. >>> >>> > >>> > >>> >>So, love me or hate me, but for pity's sakes, grow a spine and act >>> >>like real men with original ideas when you go to lobby DC. >>> > >>> > Personally, I hold neither love NOR hatred for you. >>> > >>> >>I am firmly convinced you could make a serious impact if you think >>> >>outside the box of present conventions. >>> > >>> > We have already made a "serious impact". You just don't like it >>> > because we did so WITHIN the law. >>> > >>> >>The whole notion of "raising broadband's definition" to justify >>> >>federal handouts to industry is so small, so weak, such tired >>> >>thinking that surely a better notion can be sold. >>> > >>> > Umm..what was your idea again? The idea of raising the bar for what >>> > is defined as broadband has little to do with "federal handouts". >>> > It is the reality that there really IS a problem in this country. >>> > We are falling behind in the world. There are things that need to >>> > happen at the federal level to get us (the nation) back on track >>> > with BB availability. In order to do that, we have to first define >>> > broadband. In today's world, 200k is NOT sufficient to be called >>> > broadband. But I'm not going to argue this whole point out with >>> > you. You wouldn't agree in the end anyway. >>> >>> Oh, GAWD. Spare us the unmitigated tripe about "falling behind the >>> world" >>> already. This political BS is so tiresome, so stupid, and so >>> ridiculously >>> absurd it deserves NEVER ANOTHER MENTION. >>> >>> What, if we fell behind the world in euthanasia, we'd need Congress to >>> bail >>> us out with some federal guns and death policy? Cripes, what IS this >>> rot? >>> >>> I see a needed service to people who need it. NOT EVERYONE NEEDS IT. >>> NOT >>> MANY BENEFIT MUCH FROM IT! Seriously! To think that abject buffoons in >>> DC >>> can somehow determine that broadband is going to cure our country's >>> economic >>> ills is beyond stupid. It's mindless. It has it's place, it has its >>> value, but to think that somehow it is or should be an issue so critical >>> that we need our government to step in and blow taxpayer money on >>> studying, >>> subsidizing, and ultimately screw with the markets to "fix" it is beyond >>> stupid. This nation is NOT SUFFERING A LACK OF BROADBAND. Not to say >>> that there's no place lacking it, it's just that in the universe of >>> important stuff, this is a grain of sand in the middle of a desert. I >>> can't believe that we should fall for this notion and use it as the >>> basis >>> for our industry's lobbying. I'ts just more of the "can't think >>> outside >>> the box" that I mentioned before. Just because someone turned this >>> into >>> a >>> meme is no reason to keep repeating it. >>> >>> Why can't the approach to all this make sense? Seriously, this is all >>> I've >>> ever argued for. >>> >>> > >>> > -- >>> > ******************************************************************** >>> > * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* >>> > * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * >>> > * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * >>> > * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * >>> > ******************************************************************** >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------- >>> > WISPA Wants You! 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