I agree with Tom. All in one place. Richard
2009/9/13 Tom DeReggi <[email protected]>: > I also feel there is an administrative headache to managing access to to > many lists, that eventually can translate to confusion and delays for > prospective list members. > I also think its a big pain to never know who is on a list. For example how > many people you will reach or not reach if you post there.. > > I think some justification for a dedicated list are... > 1) defining that it is a topic that a large amount of members do NOT want to > hear about, but a topic that will generate a lot of messages for the few > that do. > 2) for a specialize short duration project, only pertaining to a few > involved. > 3) A topic outside the scope of what WISPA is about (wireless). > 4) Control of moderation, rules and focused content. For example a > manufacturer/vendor member's own list for their product. > > I think seperating wireless technology related sub-topics will delute the > value of the primary list. And potentially unnecessarilly segregate > membership. > The other issue is that there are different ways to break things down, that > can cause confusion of where to post. > For example lets pretend we had 8 lists... > 1) 3.65 list versus 5.8 list. > 2) Wimax list vs Non-Wimax list > 3) WiMax-e (mobile) list versus Wimax-d (fixed) list. > 4) Spectrum licensing issues list vs technical issues list > > Which category/list would a 3.65 post best fit? > > Thus my reasoning for preferring all wireless stuff in one place. > > With that said, if some 3650 people still want their own focused list, that > Jack has created for them, it should not be denied. > But I think it should still be appropriate to post 3650 topics on the main > list, for those that prefer that. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Belton" <[email protected]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 11:06 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which WiMAX Are You? > > >> Agreed. Too many lists devalues the content due to smaller pools of >> information (people) to pull from. >> >> Brad >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Matt Liotta >> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:00 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which WiMAX Are You? >> >> Too many lists just fragment the conversation. Many including myself >> just don't feel like joining a bunch of lists. Ultimately, if WISPA is >> trying to move the value of the lists to just members then they should >> just make the existing list, members only and be done with. >> >> -Matt >> >> On Sep 12, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote: >> >>> Ah. I never quite remember that: >>> >>> the WISP list is for WISPA members only, while >>> >>> the WISPA list is for any WISP. >>> >>> Definitely clever naming ;-). <cough> >>> >>> Still, I wish they'd change that since us not-so-clever people would >>> expect the reverse! >>> >>> Anyway, I generally support moving some of this onto internal lists, >>> but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to divide things up so >>> finely that we have frequency-labelled lists. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: >>> >>>> A members-only list, so if people don't mind to keep it going on this >>>> list instead of the closed one... >>>> >>>> >>>> Rubens >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Josh Luthman >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Heads up thread - Jack made a new list for 3.650 topics >>>>> specifically. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/12/09, Chuck Bartosch <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Tom, >>>>>> >>>>>> 802.16d implementations can and do support diversity antennas on >>>>>> the >>>>>> AUs. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know the definitive answer to the rest of the question. >>>>>> But I >>>>>> do know that: >>>>>> >>>>>> (1) Clients in 802.16e can and do support diversity >>>>>> >>>>>> (2) The clients are supposed to be interoperable >>>>>> >>>>>> (3) I know of no clients that support diversity in 802.16d >>>>>> >>>>>> So, speculatively, the point might that 802.16e clients support >>>>>> diversity and interoperate. >>>>>> >>>>>> You pick up at least a few db with client diversity antennas-though >>>>>> not nearly enough to make up for the lower power regime you have to >>>>>> operate in. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 11, 2009, at 7:12 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrick, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Always great to see your list posts filled with good info. >>>>>>> Responses >>>>>>> inline... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The E standard does enable use of diversity, but it comes at a >>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>> cost >>>>>>>> and is of limited benefit for rural operators. The truth is that >>>>>>>> diversity is designed to increase link budgets to support self- >>>>>>>> install. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you clarify? Are you saying D Spec does not support Diversity? >>>>>>> Or that most D vendors focusing on price chose not to include >>>>>>> implementation >>>>>>> of it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Even most Wifi chipsets supports diversity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My understanding was D supported diversity, because the early Pre- >>>>>>> Wimax >>>>>>> Aperto supported all types of Diversity. >>>>>>> Please clarify. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd like to add... I'd like to see more FIXED products support >>>>>>> Diversity at >>>>>>> the AP. >>>>>>> Trials have shown that Polarity diversity yielded much better >>>>>>> results than >>>>>>> Spacial diversity for NLOS. BUT, that data does not consider >>>>>>> spectrum >>>>>>> availabilty and congestion. >>>>>>> Many Metro deployments can't afford to waste a polarity, with >>>>>>> limited >>>>>>> spectrum and lots of noise, and forced to abandon the idea of >>>>>>> Polarity >>>>>>> diversity. >>>>>>> Spacial Diversity at teh AP is an enhancement that can be used >>>>>>> without any >>>>>>> trade-off other than Colo fees if can't avoid paying colo per >>>>>>> antenna. >>>>>>> Actually in newer MIMO designs Spacial Diversity on its own showed >>>>>>> signficant improvements in range. >>>>>>> This could becaome even more important in 3.65 with few channels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Basically, each standard has its place, E is for people in 2.5 >>>>>>>> GHz >>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>> self-install, like Clearwire, and we all know the low service >>>>>>>> (especially low upstream) packages offered in Clearwire's >>>>>>>> service. >>>>>>>> D is >>>>>>>> better and cheaper for rural fixed operators, and especially for >>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>> safety video type networks and definitely for voice-centric >>>>>>>> users. >>>>>>>> D is >>>>>>>> better for enterprise, where many users sit behind the CPE. E is >>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>> for roaming individual users with modest expectations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd agree. And I'd agree "D" is most appropriate for most WISPs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the biggest factor in deciding though isn't technology >>>>>>> specs? >>>>>>> People want to pick the technology with the longest life span. >>>>>>> Many WISPs might prefer D, but are afraid D might be discontinued >>>>>>> sooner, >>>>>>> since the big dollar might have followed E. >>>>>>> Just like is happening right now. >>>>>>> I think the number one factor that will lead WISPs to pick D is >>>>>>> acknowledgement that Vendors understand and see the long term >>>>>>> potential and >>>>>>> MArket for D, so we can be confident about our vendors. >>>>>>> So far, I think the primary vendors have done a good job showing >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> supprot for D. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The other number 1 barrier to WiMax is price, so once again many >>>>>>> have chosen >>>>>>> D for price reasons. >>>>>>> But that is a fake benefit, because technically there is no reason >>>>>>> that E >>>>>>> product couldn't be sold just as Cheap if it came down to it. >>>>>>> If anything, E has the potential to drop to lower prices, because >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> economy >>>>>>> of scale and diverse use for WiMax chipsets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So what I'm saying is... Wimax E is killing themselves by pricing >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> products to high. Right now D has the potential to regain its >>>>>>> market >>>>>>> share >>>>>>> because its price advantage. >>>>>>> However, one good way for E to protect its market share is to try >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> influence the discontinuation of D. >>>>>>> Thus important to support the continued development of D. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We'd like to hear your opinions, and if you like to discuss this >>>>>>>> with us >>>>>>>> while at 4G World, please drop me a note. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Patrick Leary >>>>>>>> Aperto Networks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Patrick Leary >>>>>>>> Aperto Networks >>>>>>>> 813.426.4230 mobile >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------- >>>>>> Chuck Bartosch >>>>>> Clarity Connect, Inc. >>>>>> 200 Pleasant Grove Road >>>>>> Ithaca, NY 14850 >>>>>> (607) 257-8268 >>>>>> >>>>>> "When the stars threw down their spears, >>>>>> and water'd heaven with their tears, >>>>>> Did He smile, His work to see? >>>>>> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" >>>>>> >>>>>> From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>> >>>>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, >>>>> however >>>>> improbable, must be the truth." >>>>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> -------------- >>> Chuck Bartosch >>> Clarity Connect, Inc. >>> 200 Pleasant Grove Road >>> Ithaca, NY 14850 >>> (607) 257-8268 >>> >>> "When the stars threw down their spears, >>> and water'd heaven with their tears, >>> Did He smile, His work to see? >>> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" >>> >>> From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! 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