" We're going to have to learn a lot about that in a hurry." Thats the way the technology industry has always been in the 30+ years I've been a part of it.
You're definitely in a different boat than we are. We're as rural as it gets. Bandwidth is worth more than gold, no density as far as subscribers go, trees & hills & more trees, its a different animal. Either way, I'm enjoying the topic and the input from everyone. -RickG On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:36 PM, George Morris <[email protected]>wrote: > Rick, I'm not nearly brave enough to claim this is going to handle all our > future needs, but from what I've see so far its going to help a lot over > the > next 2-3 years. > > We've been playing with both the Ubiquiti stuff and the MikroTik stuff for > many months now and we're encouraged that there is a future here. > > We need 5.4 certification, and we need to alter our business model for the > Urban stuff to create cells that are no more than a couple of miles radius. > We need to identify service areas with enough customer density to justify > fibre close to the tower, but isolated enough that 5.x, particularly 5.4, > is > not going to be overrun in the next few years. There is no doubt that N is > more sensitive to interference, at least that is the indication we have > from > our trials. No such thing as a free lunch I suspect, just like usual. > > We already have decent Internet fibre prices that will allow a > Gigabit-capable tower in a high density area. I understand that everyone > has > a different environment to compete in, but ours is perhaps unusual in that > the Cablecos and Telcos are introducing some pretty draconian bandwidth > caps > in their post-modern effort to stay profitable without investing in fibre > to > the premises. This appears to give us an opportunity to circumvent the > traditional last mile and take the fight directly to the enemy. > > Couldn't even have dreamed about this a year ago, but now its looking > frighteningly reasonable as a strategy. > > We do need to figure out how to do QoS properly at high bandwidths, we've > been a bit cavalier about that in the past. Once you get up to a realistic > 10Mbit or more to the customer on any kind of large scale deployment I > think > the rules of the game change. Everything you're working with gets bigger, > faster and a lot more expensive on the back office end although the front > end tower-related costs stay around the levels we are used to. We're going > to have to learn a lot about that in a hurry. > > George > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:18 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing > > George, I have not played with the N stuff. Mostly because I need to > upgrade > my towers. That is in the plans. Which is where this discussion s > originating from. Anytime I spend money, I have to confirm it is worthwhile > and will represent an ROI. Yes, bandwidth is coming down ever so slowly > (here anyways). > So, what your saying is that the new equipment + lower bandwidth costs will > handle all of our future needs? > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, George Morris > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Rick, there is a heck of a range of technology out there as you know. > > Anything from the old Alvarion hoppers to the new stuff using N from > > Ubiquiti and Mikrotik + dog. > > > > It isn't the same game anymore, provided you can get your Internet > pipe(s) > > at a reasonable price. > > > > Guaranteed bandwidth from a WISP is certainly do-able now, and the > numbers > > I've seen in this thread are on the low side. Have you played with the > new > > stuff that can actually deliver 100Mbits per AP? Its stunning. There are > > still some rough edges in both the firmware and certification, but this > is > > the future. QoS is still an issue of course, the customer will eat > whatever > > we can give them and then some... > > > > George > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of RickG > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:25 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing > > > > No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they > are > > great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of > shared > > bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to > proper > > ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial sense. > > > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jayson Baker <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long. > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you " > guaranteed > > > > minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps and > > > > 6Mbps" at those low rates to every use and make money? Maybe I'm > wrong > > > but > > > > the problem I see is that you will end up having unhappy subscribers > > when > > > > their expectations are not met. Thats where the premium rates can > come > > > in. > > > > I > > > > find people all the time who would pay more for committed speeds if > it > > > can > > > > be delivered. > > > > > > > > BTW: Cricket Communications, subsidiary of Leap Wireless has lost > money > > > > since its inception and continues to do so. Give me an example of an > > > > non-subsidized "all you can eat service" company in a competitive > > market > > > > that actually makes money (bottom line). > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Jayson Baker <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ya know, we've looked at this many times over the past couple > years, > > > and > > > > > even tested it for a bit. > > > > > > > > > > Fact is, people like unlimited, and not having to guess. I, > myself, > > > > being > > > > > a > > > > > fairly lite user of the Internet, would still always opt for an > > > unlimited > > > > > plan--even if I knew my bill may be lower on a pay-per-use plan. I > > > have > > > > > unlimited cell phone minutes, txt messages, etc. If I could pay > for > > > > > unlimited utilites, I'd certainly do that too! > > > > > > > > > > We've got the infrastructure in place for a pay-per-use, and could > > > > activate > > > > > it at anytime. We tried selling it about a year ago, and people > just > > > > > didn't > > > > > understand the concept. People aren't used to it--most people got > > > online > > > > > when Internet was $19.95/mo for dialup (or, $22.95 for AOL!), and > > don't > > > > > remember the 10 for $10 dial-up packages. Nobody knows what ISDN > > with > > > > 300 > > > > > hours is. > > > > > > > > > > We currently offer 12Mbps service for $24.95/mo. This makes us the > > > > fastest > > > > > in the area, and the cheapest. We have local sales, support and > > > > > installations. We decided the way to win is to shape traffic--we > > offer > > > > > three 12Mbps packages; one with a guaranteed minimum of 1.5Mbps, > > 4Mbps > > > > and > > > > > 6Mbps. If you do nothing than browse, share pictures, etc. (i.e. > > > "normal > > > > > use") you'll always see the 12Mbps. But once you fire up a torrent > > or > > > > > Netflix, you only get that speed for 10 minutes--after that, you > get > > > your > > > > > guaranteed minimum. Prices double from 1.5 to 4, and double again > > > going > > > > to > > > > > 6Mbps. We have never had a complaint about speed or price with > this > > > > > structure. > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that the "big guys" do go to pay-per-use plans. Just > one > > > more > > > > > way we can advertise and win against them. "Tired of counting your > > > bits > > > > > and > > > > > bytes? We're unlimited" Look at Cricket wireless--they've just > > > exploded > > > > > with customers on their unlimited-everything service. > > > > > > > > > > Just my 2 cents > > > > > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Travis Johnson <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The cellular guys don't charge by the minute... I have an > > unlimited > > > > plan > > > > > > on my cell phone. I can also get unlimited text and internet > access > > > for > > > > > > $9.95/mo extra. > > > > > > > > > > > > People don't want to guess what their internet bills are going to > > be > > > > from > > > > > > month to month. Would you want that at your own home? > > > > > > > > > > > > Travis > > > > > > Microserv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gary Garrett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You sound like the cell phone company. > > > > > > I am convinced the big failure in my business model is I charge > by > > > the > > > > > > month while the cellular guys charge by the minute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Travis Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about having to add additional resources (radius, > > > etc.) > > > > > > to track it. Then you have to bill it. Then you get to deal with > > the > > > > > > phone calls from users that say "My computer wasn't even turned > on > > > > > > during those times. Remove the charge or I will go elsewhere." > So, > > > > even > > > > > > that one extra phone call costs you money (because you have to > > think > > > > > > about scaling). Imagine if you have 100x the number of customers > > you > > > > > > have now... does the same solution work? Probably not. > > > > > > > > > > > > The easier solution would be to call that customer and get them > to > > > > > > upgrade to the next plan up (which would provide higher speed as > > > well). > > > > > > This works very well for us... and then I have that guaranteed > > extra > > > > > > income each month, even if they don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! 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