We Nat everyone and we log not much of anything because I'm an internet service, not a monitoring service. "They" don't pay me to do such things therefore I don't. However, I did have one case of suspected child porn and told the cops to feel free to install their own box to log it and they did. All I gave them was a place to plug it in. Not my job.
Bob- -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality..... A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena .... Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info..... If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely.... "You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart" is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Ricker" <cric...@kentnis.com> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement > CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address > and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for > CALEA > compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal > proceedings. > > However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA > information > unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a > criminal > prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some > of > the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing > lawsuit. > > Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service > provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a > subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of "copyright > enforcement", which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties > than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in > other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice > being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for > identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. > > -Clint > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappydsl.net> > wrote: > >> This actually leads to another question: >> Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) >> supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs.... >> >> .....We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log >> access, >> based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP >> address at what point in time... >> >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net >> Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Adam Goodman >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >> >> Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really >> your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson >> <jrichard...@aircloud.com> wrote: >> > So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the >> offending >> customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. >> > >> > I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for >> the server delivering copyrighted information. >> > >> > The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. >> > >> > Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network >> > to >> find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. >> > >> > Maybe there is an easier way. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> > On Behalf Of Nick Olsen >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM >> > To: WISPA General List >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >> > >> > Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came >> > from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the >> > ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can >> > point fingers at a customer. >> > >> > Nick Olsen >> > Brevard Wireless >> > (321) 205-1100 x106 >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------- >> > >> > From: "os10ru...@gmail.com" <os10ru...@gmail.com> >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM >> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >> > >> > What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? >> > Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. >> > >> > GReg >> > >> > On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: >> > >> >> To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to >> >> protect "their" copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since >> >> they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they >> >> really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the >> >> copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work >> >> sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from >> >> contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. >> >> >> >> -Adam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West >> >> <robert.w...@just-micro.com> >> > wrote: >> >>> I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass >> >>> it >> > along >> >>> and forget it. Not my job. >> >>> >> >>> Bob- >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> >>> On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg >> >>> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM >> >>> To: WISPA General List >> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >> >>> >> >>> Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard >> >>> studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any >> information. >> >>> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> Chuck Hogg >> >>> Shelby Broadband >> >>> 502-722-9292 >> >>> ch...@shelbybb.com >> >>> http://www.shelbybb.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> >>> On Behalf Of Adam Goodman >> >>> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM >> >>> To: WISPA General List >> >>> Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >> >>> >> >>> We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from >> >>> "Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation" about a download movie from >> >>> BitTorrent. >> >>> >> >>> They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is >> >>> aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did >> >>> you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking >> >>> another path? >> >>> >> >>> Thank you, >> >>> Adam >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> >>> -------- >> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> >>> -------- >> >>> >> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >>> >> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >>> >> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ------ >> > >> >>> ---- >> >>> WISPA Wants You! 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