Bottom line is auto insurance is not required. However, they are proposing government run health insurance will be required and you will be fined and put in jail if you don't buy it.
The entire car insurance as it compares to the proposed health insurance is a failed argument. There is no comparison. Brad -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:25 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The majority don't have more cars than people, but I don't know any in my area that has fewer cars than people, only the same or more. Some people it's sports cars; some people they have a somewhat nice car they drive in summer and a beater for winter; some people it's recreational whether its for offroading, racing, RVs, etc.; some have a commuter car and a regular car; car or two at their summer home; etc.; etc. Then there's vehicles they have due to any work or business they're involved in, but I didn't include those. This tangent is a little too far out, so any further replies on this, please direct them to me offlist. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:33 AM To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance > Why would the majority of individual people need multiple cars? > > I can see a family of 3 having 3 cars. > > I can see a worker needing a car to get around and a van/truck for work. > > But I can't see random Joe (like me) needing a second vehicle. Or are you > including company owned vehicles? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > --- Albert Einstein > > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Mike Hammett > <wispawirel...@ics-il.net>wrote: > >> Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or >> St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes >> to >> participate in society (work, school, food, etc.). >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Blake Bowers" <bbow...@mozarks.com> >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >> >> > In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance >> > if you own/operate a vehicle. >> > >> > There are LOTS of people out there that don't. >> > >> > In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance >> > period. It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and >> > am happy with that. >> > >> > >> > Don't take your organs to heaven, >> > heaven knows we need them down here! >> > Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Mike Hammett" <wispawirel...@ics-il.net> >> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >> > >> > >> >> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will >> >> get >> >> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that >> >> mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a >> >> minimum >> >> liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at >> >> the >> >> national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public >> >> healthcare because I don't live there. >> >> >> >> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but >> >> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to >> >> any >> >> business. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> >> Mike Hammett >> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> >> From: "Brad Belton" <b...@belwave.com> >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM >> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >> >> >> >>> The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed >> argument. >> >>> The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't >> need >> >>> it. >> >>> The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not >> >>> buying >> >>> auto insurance from them if you don't need it. >> >>> >> >>> Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and >> >>> ultimately >> >>> put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are >> >>> taking >> >>> your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something >> >>> from >> >>> them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see >> >>> fit. >> >>> >> >>> Big difference. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Brad >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> >>> Behalf Of Ryan Spott >> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM >> >>> To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List >> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >> >>> >> >>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care >> >>> system. >> >>> One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you >> >>> want >> >>> better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to >> the >> >>> newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services." >> >>> >> >>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I >> >>> am >> >>> tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the >> >>> poor-house. >> >>> >> >>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients >> >>> (sometimes >> >>> in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the >> >>> hospital >> >>> because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that >> >>> you >> >>> just >> >>> extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging >> >>> you >> >>> to >> >>> let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going >> to >> >>> the >> >>> hospital. >> >>> >> >>> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever >> those >> >>> may >> >>> be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra >> >>> insurance >> >>> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private >> >>> forest-lands >> >>> on >> >>> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. >> >>> >> >>> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for >> >>> vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to "pay >> >>> that >> >>> extra >> >>> tax" to drive your car? >> >>> >> >>> Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... >> >>> >> >>> ryan >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke >> >>> <nstooke...@wisperisp.com>wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Hello, >> >>>> >> >>>> I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that >> >>>> started >> >>>> WedMD years back. He was starting another company that worked with >> the >> >>>> insurance flow of paper work. He said several times that 70% to 80% >> of >> >>> the >> >>>> insurance premiums we pay go to the "middle" man and not to pay for >> the >> >>>> doctors services. >> >>>> >> >>>> My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health >> >>>> care >> >>>> system. One of the fastest growing industries is private >> >>>> healthcare. >> >>>> If >> >>>> you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want >> to >> >>>> go >> >>>> to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> >>>> Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz >> >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM >> >>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >> >>>> >> >>>> Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates >> >>>> (all >> >>>> types >> >>>> of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that make a great >> >>>> deal >> >>>> of >> >>>> sense to me, but I have heard all kinds of excuses... >> >>>> >> >>>> The original point was, >> >>>> Health Care Insurance is a necessity. >> >>>> Health Care Insurance should be a vital benefit, provided by an >> >>>> Employer >> >>>> whenever possible. >> >>>> Health Care Insurance is expensive.... >> >>>> >> >>>> So, How do you set up this benefit so that it makes sense for all >> >>>> (Employer and Employee). >> >>>> >> >>>> There are a number of very effective ways to do this, rather than >> the >> >>>> drastic options to convert Employees to Contractors... >> >>>> >> >>>> BTW, if you Talk to you Accountant, they will also tell you that >> >>>> simply >> >>>> paying someone on a 1099 as a Contractor, does not make them a >> contract >> >>>> employee.... There are other 'litmus' tests used to determine the >> exact >> >>>> status, in-case someone challenges the status quo. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Faisal Imtiaz >> >>>> Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net >> >>>> Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> >>>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 11:06 PM >> >>>> To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List >> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >> >>>> >> >>>> Ahhhh... now we know.... it's Florida that is causing everyone >> >>>> else's >> >>>> insurance rates to go up... :) >> >>>> >> >>>> We pay about $700/month to cover an entire family (this is just >> >>>> health >> >>>> insurance, the dental and vision is extra). >> >>>> >> >>>> Travis >> >>>> Microserv >> >>>> >> >>>> Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >> >>>> > As a business owner, in Florida, where the Health Insurance is one >> of >> >>>> > the highest in the US, we have seeing 15-20% increses every year >> >>>> > for >> >>>> > the last few years. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > It is nice to see that you offer 100% health insurance coverage >> >>>> > for >> >>>> > all of your Employees, where the company is picking up the Tab for >> >>>> > the >> >>>> > Insurance Premiums. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Simply for the sake of my understanding, why would you choose to >> >>>> > >> >>>> > " force us to go to a subcontractor type work-force (at least for >> >>>> > 5-10 of our current employees) to get us under the 25 employee >> >>>> > limit >> >>>> > and >> >>>> ..... " >> >>>> > offer less benefits for everyone in the company " >> >>>> > >> >>>> > At the end of the day, $412 / employee is not a whole lot of >> >>>> > money, >> >>>> > especially when you are talking about a benfit like Health >> >>>> Insurance....... >> >>>> > If you are looking to have some means of off-setting the >> >>>> > additional >> >>>> > $$$, would'nt it me easier and better for everyone if you reduced >> >>>> > your >> >>>> > Company provided 100% coverage to let's say 90%, and have the >> >>>> > Employee >> >>>> > pay the other 10% ? >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > What are your current costs for Health Insurnace ? We are seeing >> >>>> typically >> >>>> > $300-$400 / month for a single male, and $1300-$1450 /month for a >> >>>> > family >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >From what we have been seeing in the last few years, including >> >>>> > >our >> >>>> > >present >> >>>> > coverage increase (approx $8100/year for 3 families)... $412 /year >> >>>> > increase would be a Blessing and a Christmas present... >> >>>> > >> >>>> > ------------------- >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Just a thought. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Faisal Imtiaz >> >>>> > Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net >> >>>> > Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 >> >>>> > -----Original Message----- >> >>>> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >> >>>> > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org >> ] >> >>>> > On Behalf Of Travis Johnson >> >>>> > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:50 PM >> >>>> > To: WISPA General List >> >>>> > Subject: [WISPA] health insurance >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Hi, >> >>>> > >> >>>> > What are everyone else's plans if this new health insurance plan >> gets >> >>>> > passed in Congress? We fall in the 25-100 employee category, so >> >>>> > they >> >>>> > are estimating our health insurance costs would go up $412 per >> >>>> > employee for us (we already cover 100% of the costs for our >> >>>> > employees). So, basically this would force us to go to a >> >>>> > subcontractor >> >>>> > type work-force (at least for 5-10 of our current employees) to >> >>>> > get >> >>>> > us >> >>>> > under the 25 employee limit and offer less benefits for everyone >> >>>> > in >> >>>> > the >> >>>> company. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Once again, it seems our government is stepping in where it >> >>>> > doesn't >> >>>> belong. >> >>>> > Either take over the health care system 100% (including funding >> >>>> > it), >> >>>> > or leave it alone. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Travis >> >>>> > Microserv >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> > ------ >> >>>> > ---- >> >>>> > WISPA Wants You! 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