May not be mainstream, but is a decent percentage. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7978853.stm
On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > I didn't say it wasn't an issue. I said there are solutions to the problem. > > I am stating that while broadcasters and such use torrents, how many > of them do not offer regular downloads? If you were to be one of > these broadcasters and had to choose one medium, which one and why? > > I am stating torrent isn't mainstream. I am stating you can't treat > torrents like HTTP. You are trying to make it sound as if the > majority of users use torrents to the same extent someone uses the web > which, arguably so, is simply not the case. Not in the world I live > in, not my customers and probably not even the subscribers on this > list. > > On 2/14/10, Eje Gustafsson <e...@wisp-router.com> wrote: >> So in otherwords Torrent shouldn't be an issue then from what you say. So no >> need to block or throttle it. Also sites like The Pirate Bay are >> insignificant because nobody uses Torrents. >> It's easy. Installed a Torrent client (utorrent, bittorent, limewire you >> name it) and when you run across a torrent offered download click the link >> torrent file download and download client is launched. >> >> You might not see the use of it or like Nine Inch Nails, prefer to do it the >> hard way with WoW and prefer http downloads. All ISO *nix dists I downloaded >> been over torrent because I grew frustrated trying to find the one fast >> mirror with Torrent I frequently hit 800KBps downloads speeds no matter how >> new the release is. Plus on top of it I can help out the open source >> community by seeding the distro. >> I do NOT want to be a mirror because of the bandwidth utilizations and well >> honestly I do not have decent enough speed to be a "useful" mirror. >> >> And you forgot all other examples I provided that are legal Torrents >> providing broadcaster shows and podcasts some by broadcasters themselves. >> You wanted more examples besides wow, *nix distros and MikroTik and I gave >> it to you. You just said to you torrent was useless and to hard and you >> prefer web downloads and say that nobody else would use it so why then are >> we having the discussion about bittorrents and block, throttle or connection >> limit obviously it's not a uncommon occurrence/use. >> Legal or not downloads. Like it or not BitTorrent is here to stay and with >> every day there will be more legal use for it and illegal use will continue >> to be used. Blocking it or throttle it to unusable is not an option IMHO. >> Just like Napster it used to be for illegal downloads now it's not. If >> someone paid for a subscription on the Napster website and then downloaded >> the software client and find out his ISP is blocking it this guy ain't going >> to be happy. >> >> Say someone buys the Amazon S3 service to have a offsite synced data storage >> service and your blocking it and it takes this person/company hours to >> figure out that you're the blame I'm sure this business is not going to be >> happy. >> >> Nine Inch Nails have their official torrent provided through The Pirate Bay. >> So anyone using LimeWire as you say will access the official way of >> downloading the 2 last NIN albums (first one was a 4 cd album). >> >> And if you have installed Limewire/Kazza or whatever the gamer/mp3r is ready >> to download torrents with a single click of a webpage just as easy as you >> download a normal file through a http page but the advantage most of the >> times faster downloads..... >> >> / Eje >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:09 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents >> >> I never said it was good to block it. I think blocking it is bad. Not sure >> where you got that impression. My stance is if you can support it, charge >> them for it. If it costs you too much and you lose money on it, drop it >> with speed limiting, blocking or the customer entirely. >> >> Once again... >> >> I have played Wow. I played it last week for the free trial. Instead of >> waiting all night for the torrent I went to one of the mirrors I posted and >> got the patch in minutes instead of hours. Blizzard's other games - >> Starcraft, Warcraft 2 and 3, Diablo 1 and 2 - are all HTTP only. The only >> Blizzard files obtained via torrent are the Wow patches and hi def >> trailers/movies - < >> http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&tag=patches> >> >> Every *nix distro I've obtained (Ubuntu, Fedora, Centos, DSL, Knoppix, >> Gentoo, maybe more) I've done HTTP. >> >> Who cares if Nine Inch Nails distributes their music via torrent? No one >> uses it anyways - they all use Napster/Kazaa/Limewire. >> >> So why choose torrent over HTTP? I just don't see Grandma Bonnie Emailer or >> Little Timmy MP3er or Greasy Gary Gamer (except that one half Wow example) >> using torrents. I just don't see the average user installing utorrent to >> get their blog videos, mp3s or latest content, it's easier to click one link >> in the browser, save it and use it. >> >> I also want to mention that 300GB/mo transfer at home is not high at all. >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue >> that counts." >> --- Winston Churchill >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Eje Gustafsson <e...@wisp-router.com> wrote: >> >>> Have you ever played wow and see how their updates are released and >>> distributed? (I'm not a wow player but I had to deal with it). Basically >>> you >>> start the game, login to your character and you get a notice update is >>> available and you say ok and it starts downloading and update starts once >>> it >>> is done. >>> >>> ISO distro downloads. Instead of hunting for a mirror site that have fast >>> speeds and testing out multiple of them before finding on that give you >>> good >>> speed. All I do is select one torrent file and start a torrent download. >>> ISO >>> downloaded in no time. Faster easier and less issues. Especially when you >>> deal with a big distro version that is DVD format and newly released. >>> >>> Other adoptions.... >>> BitTorrent Inc has a number of licenses from Hollywood for distributing >>> popular content with their torrent system >>> Sub Pop Records reelases tracks and videos to distribute its 1000+ albums. >>> The band Ween as an example uses the website Browntracker.net to >> distribute >>> hundreds of video recordings of live shows. >>> Babyshambles, The Libertines has extensively used torrents to distribute >>> hundreds of demos and live videos. >>> Nine Inch Nails frequently distribute albums via BitTorrent >>> Many new PodCasting software start to integrate BitTorrent to help >>> broadcasters deal with download demands of their MP3 "radio" programs. For >>> example Juice and Miro support automatic processing of .torrent files from >>> RSS feeds. The same thing with uTurrent. >>> Then you have Mininova tracker which is a Content Distributor only >> platform >>> to allow copyright holders especially smaller groups to distribute their >>> music, videos etc. >>> In addition DGM Live! Purchass are provided via BitTorrent >>> >>> CBC was the first public broadcaster in NA to make a full show available >>> for >>> download using BitTorrent >>> NRK (Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation) has since March 08 experimented >>> with bittorrent distribution for selected material which NRK owns all >>> royalties (they use Miro) (http://nrkbeta.no/bittorrent/) >>> VPRO (Dutch broadcaster) released some documentaries under the Creative >>> Commons license using Mininova. >>> >>> Amazon S3 (Simple Storage Service) is equipped with a built-in BitTorrent >>> support >>> Bog Torrent has a bittorent track to enable bloggers to host a tracker on >>> their site to allow visitors to download a stub loader so they can access >>> picture, blog, music, videos posted by the blogger. >>> >>> As mentioned Blizzard Entertainment (especially Wow) uses built in >>> BitTorrent in their software for updates, patches, maps etc downloads. >> Some >>> of these downloads are extremely large and difficult to host and >> distribute >>> of a traditional server because once a large update is released you will >>> have tens of thousands people that will download said update within hours. >>> Support nightmare to try to get everyone go to a mirror webpage and >>> download >>> a separate installer with no automatic and slow download speeds. >>> >>> Many open source and free software projects encourage BitTorrent basically >>> to increase availability and to reduce load on their own servers mostly >>> when >>> a new software release just been released. When you have hundreds or >>> thousands people that want to download latest dist. Personally I don't >> mind >>> to help seed a Fedora torrent because it helps me out when a new version >> is >>> available as well. >>> >>> So enough legal usages and samples for you now to still think it's ok to >>> totally block or throttle BitTorrent to nothingness? Your customers pay >> you >>> to get access to data what they access is after all really not your >>> responsibility. Yours is to provide them with access and ensure that they >>> have good access and get what they pay for which means control and >> maintain >>> network stability and speed by managing your traffic to a level that is >>> good >>> for everyone. The more people that blatantly block things and especially >>> when there is no other highspeed options will cause the FCC/government to >>> step in and enforce how things need to be ran and what you are allowed or >>> especially not allowed to do. But of course if your clean about it and >> very >>> upfront about it then it might be a different matter. But if your hide it >>> in >>> a AUP or TOS in the fine print especially if you don't make the user sign >>> it >>> but states usage of internet means acceptance of the terms you are in deep >>> waters. >>> I personally allow any fileshare application on my network. I do throttle >>> it >>> and only allow a max of 60% of my available bandwidth for fileshare apps >>> shared over all my customers and on top of it any interactive data >>> transfers >>> is prioritized (dns, mail, http, messengers to mention a few) above >>> fileshare. The advantage to this is that my customer can still download >>> things over fileshare and it will not kill their other usage nor my >>> available bandwidth either. Works nice for them and for me and everyone is >>> happy. >>> >>> / Eje >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:44 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents >>> >>> I'm not saying there aren't a lot of legal torrents but I'm saying the >>> majority are illegal and that torrent is by no means a mainstream protocol >>> that needs to be supported. >>> >>> Wow patches? Here's some HTTP mirrors... >>> http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_mirrors >>> >>> MT updates? Click the link above it that is HTTP for the file you need. >>> >>> *nix distros? Click the HTTP links above or below it. >>> >>> These are the 3 examples I see time and time again and I always ask, >>> without >>> answer, for other examples. >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue >>> that counts." >>> --- Winston Churchill >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:41 AM, Philip Dorr >>> <wirel...@judgementgaming.com>wrote: >>> >>> > I get my Ubuntu ISOs via Bittorrent. >>> > >>> > We block the customer, until they stop, if it is causing problems with >>> > the AP they are on. We have only had problems on our 2.4Ghz and >>> > sometimes 900Mhz APs. We have not yet had any problems on our 5.8Ghz >>> > APs. >>> > >>> > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Josh Luthman >>> > <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: >>> > > Torrents are used by WoW and Mikrotik. What else that you would go >>> > > under oath saying you torrented? >>> > > >>> > > On 2/14/10, Robert West <robert.w...@just-micro.com> wrote: >>> > >> We allow but they can't run a server, as in NO sharing. But >>> "allowing" >>> > >> means no 24 hour downloading. >>> > >> >>> > >> Can't get around torrents, even Mikrotik has their updates via >>> torrent. >>> > >> >>> > >> Bob- >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> -----Original Message----- >>> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On >>> > >> Behalf Of RickG >>> > >> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:55 AM >>> > >> To: WISPA General List >>> > >> Subject: [WISPA] bit torrents >>> > >> >>> > >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >>> > >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >>> > >> being over >>> > >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >>> > >> -RickG >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >> ---- >>> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > >> >>> > >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >> ---- >>> > >> >>> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> > >> >>> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> > >> >>> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > >> >>> > >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> > >> >>> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> > >> >>> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> > >> >>> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -- >>> > > Josh Luthman >>> > > Office: 937-552-2340 >>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> > > 1100 Wayne St >>> > > Suite 1337 >>> > > Troy, OH 45373 >>> > > >>> > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to >>> > > continue that counts." >>> > > --- Winston Churchill >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> > > http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> > > >>> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> > > >>> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> > > >>> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> > WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > -- > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to > continue that counts.” > --- Winston Churchill > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
