8% of Swedes do peer to peer. I would expect the American population to have a smaller figure. Regardless, can we not agree it's a small figure?
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Philip Dorr <wirel...@judgementgaming.com>wrote: > May not be mainstream, but is a decent percentage. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7978853.stm > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Josh Luthman > <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > > I didn't say it wasn't an issue. I said there are solutions to the > problem. > > > > I am stating that while broadcasters and such use torrents, how many > > of them do not offer regular downloads? If you were to be one of > > these broadcasters and had to choose one medium, which one and why? > > > > I am stating torrent isn't mainstream. I am stating you can't treat > > torrents like HTTP. You are trying to make it sound as if the > > majority of users use torrents to the same extent someone uses the web > > which, arguably so, is simply not the case. Not in the world I live > > in, not my customers and probably not even the subscribers on this > > list. > > > > On 2/14/10, Eje Gustafsson <e...@wisp-router.com> wrote: > >> So in otherwords Torrent shouldn't be an issue then from what you say. > So no > >> need to block or throttle it. Also sites like The Pirate Bay are > >> insignificant because nobody uses Torrents. > >> It's easy. Installed a Torrent client (utorrent, bittorent, limewire you > >> name it) and when you run across a torrent offered download click the > link > >> torrent file download and download client is launched. > >> > >> You might not see the use of it or like Nine Inch Nails, prefer to do it > the > >> hard way with WoW and prefer http downloads. All ISO *nix dists I > downloaded > >> been over torrent because I grew frustrated trying to find the one fast > >> mirror with Torrent I frequently hit 800KBps downloads speeds no matter > how > >> new the release is. Plus on top of it I can help out the open source > >> community by seeding the distro. > >> I do NOT want to be a mirror because of the bandwidth utilizations and > well > >> honestly I do not have decent enough speed to be a "useful" mirror. > >> > >> And you forgot all other examples I provided that are legal Torrents > >> providing broadcaster shows and podcasts some by broadcasters > themselves. > >> You wanted more examples besides wow, *nix distros and MikroTik and I > gave > >> it to you. You just said to you torrent was useless and to hard and you > >> prefer web downloads and say that nobody else would use it so why then > are > >> we having the discussion about bittorrents and block, throttle or > connection > >> limit obviously it's not a uncommon occurrence/use. > >> Legal or not downloads. Like it or not BitTorrent is here to stay and > with > >> every day there will be more legal use for it and illegal use will > continue > >> to be used. Blocking it or throttle it to unusable is not an option > IMHO. > >> Just like Napster it used to be for illegal downloads now it's not. If > >> someone paid for a subscription on the Napster website and then > downloaded > >> the software client and find out his ISP is blocking it this guy ain't > going > >> to be happy. > >> > >> Say someone buys the Amazon S3 service to have a offsite synced data > storage > >> service and your blocking it and it takes this person/company hours to > >> figure out that you're the blame I'm sure this business is not going to > be > >> happy. > >> > >> Nine Inch Nails have their official torrent provided through The Pirate > Bay. > >> So anyone using LimeWire as you say will access the official way of > >> downloading the 2 last NIN albums (first one was a 4 cd album). > >> > >> And if you have installed Limewire/Kazza or whatever the gamer/mp3r is > ready > >> to download torrents with a single click of a webpage just as easy as > you > >> download a normal file through a http page but the advantage most of the > >> times faster downloads..... > >> > >> / Eje > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> Behalf Of Josh Luthman > >> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:09 PM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents > >> > >> I never said it was good to block it. I think blocking it is bad. Not > sure > >> where you got that impression. My stance is if you can support it, > charge > >> them for it. If it costs you too much and you lose money on it, drop it > >> with speed limiting, blocking or the customer entirely. > >> > >> Once again... > >> > >> I have played Wow. I played it last week for the free trial. Instead > of > >> waiting all night for the torrent I went to one of the mirrors I posted > and > >> got the patch in minutes instead of hours. Blizzard's other games - > >> Starcraft, Warcraft 2 and 3, Diablo 1 and 2 - are all HTTP only. The > only > >> Blizzard files obtained via torrent are the Wow patches and hi def > >> trailers/movies - < > >> http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&tag=patches> > >> > >> Every *nix distro I've obtained (Ubuntu, Fedora, Centos, DSL, Knoppix, > >> Gentoo, maybe more) I've done HTTP. > >> > >> Who cares if Nine Inch Nails distributes their music via torrent? No > one > >> uses it anyways - they all use Napster/Kazaa/Limewire. > >> > >> So why choose torrent over HTTP? I just don't see Grandma Bonnie > Emailer or > >> Little Timmy MP3er or Greasy Gary Gamer (except that one half Wow > example) > >> using torrents. I just don't see the average user installing utorrent > to > >> get their blog videos, mp3s or latest content, it's easier to click one > link > >> in the browser, save it and use it. > >> > >> I also want to mention that 300GB/mo transfer at home is not high at > all. > >> > >> Josh Luthman > >> Office: 937-552-2340 > >> Direct: 937-552-2343 > >> 1100 Wayne St > >> Suite 1337 > >> Troy, OH 45373 > >> > >> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to > continue > >> that counts." > >> --- Winston Churchill > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Eje Gustafsson <e...@wisp-router.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> Have you ever played wow and see how their updates are released and > >>> distributed? (I'm not a wow player but I had to deal with it). > Basically > >>> you > >>> start the game, login to your character and you get a notice update is > >>> available and you say ok and it starts downloading and update starts > once > >>> it > >>> is done. > >>> > >>> ISO distro downloads. Instead of hunting for a mirror site that have > fast > >>> speeds and testing out multiple of them before finding on that give you > >>> good > >>> speed. All I do is select one torrent file and start a torrent > download. > >>> ISO > >>> downloaded in no time. Faster easier and less issues. Especially when > you > >>> deal with a big distro version that is DVD format and newly released. > >>> > >>> Other adoptions.... > >>> BitTorrent Inc has a number of licenses from Hollywood for distributing > >>> popular content with their torrent system > >>> Sub Pop Records reelases tracks and videos to distribute its 1000+ > albums. > >>> The band Ween as an example uses the website Browntracker.net to > >> distribute > >>> hundreds of video recordings of live shows. > >>> Babyshambles, The Libertines has extensively used torrents to > distribute > >>> hundreds of demos and live videos. > >>> Nine Inch Nails frequently distribute albums via BitTorrent > >>> Many new PodCasting software start to integrate BitTorrent to help > >>> broadcasters deal with download demands of their MP3 "radio" programs. > For > >>> example Juice and Miro support automatic processing of .torrent files > from > >>> RSS feeds. The same thing with uTurrent. > >>> Then you have Mininova tracker which is a Content Distributor only > >> platform > >>> to allow copyright holders especially smaller groups to distribute > their > >>> music, videos etc. > >>> In addition DGM Live! Purchass are provided via BitTorrent > >>> > >>> CBC was the first public broadcaster in NA to make a full show > available > >>> for > >>> download using BitTorrent > >>> NRK (Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation) has since March 08 > experimented > >>> with bittorrent distribution for selected material which NRK owns all > >>> royalties (they use Miro) (http://nrkbeta.no/bittorrent/) > >>> VPRO (Dutch broadcaster) released some documentaries under the Creative > >>> Commons license using Mininova. > >>> > >>> Amazon S3 (Simple Storage Service) is equipped with a built-in > BitTorrent > >>> support > >>> Bog Torrent has a bittorent track to enable bloggers to host a tracker > on > >>> their site to allow visitors to download a stub loader so they can > access > >>> picture, blog, music, videos posted by the blogger. > >>> > >>> As mentioned Blizzard Entertainment (especially Wow) uses built in > >>> BitTorrent in their software for updates, patches, maps etc downloads. > >> Some > >>> of these downloads are extremely large and difficult to host and > >> distribute > >>> of a traditional server because once a large update is released you > will > >>> have tens of thousands people that will download said update within > hours. > >>> Support nightmare to try to get everyone go to a mirror webpage and > >>> download > >>> a separate installer with no automatic and slow download speeds. > >>> > >>> Many open source and free software projects encourage BitTorrent > basically > >>> to increase availability and to reduce load on their own servers mostly > >>> when > >>> a new software release just been released. When you have hundreds or > >>> thousands people that want to download latest dist. Personally I don't > >> mind > >>> to help seed a Fedora torrent because it helps me out when a new > version > >> is > >>> available as well. > >>> > >>> So enough legal usages and samples for you now to still think it's ok > to > >>> totally block or throttle BitTorrent to nothingness? Your customers pay > >> you > >>> to get access to data what they access is after all really not your > >>> responsibility. Yours is to provide them with access and ensure that > they > >>> have good access and get what they pay for which means control and > >> maintain > >>> network stability and speed by managing your traffic to a level that is > >>> good > >>> for everyone. The more people that blatantly block things and > especially > >>> when there is no other highspeed options will cause the FCC/government > to > >>> step in and enforce how things need to be ran and what you are allowed > or > >>> especially not allowed to do. But of course if your clean about it and > >> very > >>> upfront about it then it might be a different matter. But if your hide > it > >>> in > >>> a AUP or TOS in the fine print especially if you don't make the user > sign > >>> it > >>> but states usage of internet means acceptance of the terms you are in > deep > >>> waters. > >>> I personally allow any fileshare application on my network. I do > throttle > >>> it > >>> and only allow a max of 60% of my available bandwidth for fileshare > apps > >>> shared over all my customers and on top of it any interactive data > >>> transfers > >>> is prioritized (dns, mail, http, messengers to mention a few) above > >>> fileshare. The advantage to this is that my customer can still download > >>> things over fileshare and it will not kill their other usage nor my > >>> available bandwidth either. Works nice for them and for me and everyone > is > >>> happy. > >>> > >>> / Eje > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:44 AM > >>> To: WISPA General List > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents > >>> > >>> I'm not saying there aren't a lot of legal torrents but I'm saying the > >>> majority are illegal and that torrent is by no means a mainstream > protocol > >>> that needs to be supported. > >>> > >>> Wow patches? Here's some HTTP mirrors... > >>> http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_mirrors > >>> > >>> MT updates? Click the link above it that is HTTP for the file you > need. > >>> > >>> *nix distros? Click the HTTP links above or below it. > >>> > >>> These are the 3 examples I see time and time again and I always ask, > >>> without > >>> answer, for other examples. > >>> > >>> Josh Luthman > >>> Office: 937-552-2340 > >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 > >>> 1100 Wayne St > >>> Suite 1337 > >>> Troy, OH 45373 > >>> > >>> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to > continue > >>> that counts." > >>> --- Winston Churchill > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:41 AM, Philip Dorr > >>> <wirel...@judgementgaming.com>wrote: > >>> > >>> > I get my Ubuntu ISOs via Bittorrent. > >>> > > >>> > We block the customer, until they stop, if it is causing problems > with > >>> > the AP they are on. We have only had problems on our 2.4Ghz and > >>> > sometimes 900Mhz APs. We have not yet had any problems on our 5.8Ghz > >>> > APs. > >>> > > >>> > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Josh Luthman > >>> > <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > >>> > > Torrents are used by WoW and Mikrotik. What else that you would go > >>> > > under oath saying you torrented? > >>> > > > >>> > > On 2/14/10, Robert West <robert.w...@just-micro.com> wrote: > >>> > >> We allow but they can't run a server, as in NO sharing. But > >>> "allowing" > >>> > >> means no 24 hour downloading. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Can't get around torrents, even Mikrotik has their updates via > >>> torrent. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Bob- > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> -----Original Message----- > >>> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: > wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >>> On > >>> > >> Behalf Of RickG > >>> > >> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:55 AM > >>> > >> To: WISPA General List > >>> > >> Subject: [WISPA] bit torrents > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > >>> > >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. > Am I > >>> > >> being over > >>> > >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows > them? > >>> > >> -RickG > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >> ---- > >>> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>> > >> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >> ---- > >>> > >> > >>> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> ---- > >>> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>> > >> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> ---- > >>> > >> > >>> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>> > >> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > -- > >>> > > Josh Luthman > >>> > > Office: 937-552-2340 > >>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > >>> > > 1100 Wayne St > >>> > > Suite 1337 > >>> > > Troy, OH 45373 > >>> > > > >>> > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to > >>> > > continue that counts." > >>> > > --- Winston Churchill > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> ---- > >>> > > WISPA Wants You! 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