*nods* I beat on my vendors regularly for support of such things. ;-)
We're likely to get much further doing this sort of thing than
whatever we get at the FCC.
Cost effective platforms + advanced antenna\radio technologies are
going to be the winner.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Patrick Leary" <patrick.le...@telrad.com>
*To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
*Sent: *Tuesday, August 5, 2014 4:53:22 PM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released
Congratulation Jaime. The B5 products look to be excellent, and it is
good to see WISPA discussions about advanced techniques like 4x MIMO
spatial multiplexing and MU-MIMO. Too often the focus is more
spectrum, not about how to leverage technology to use much more
efficiently what spectrum there is.
For definition purposes:
MU-MIMO (multiuse MIMO) sends multiple streams to different customers
in the same band simultaneously. It doubles capacity using the same
channel size and there's not downside compared with the capacity gain.
You want it, especially where your spectrum is busy.
*Patrick Leary*
***M*727.501.3735
<http://mkt2.us/TelrdNet>
*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
*On Behalf Of *Jaime Fink
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 05, 2014 5:34 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released
Josh,
TDMA modes (whether collocated or not) are configurable in window size
with between 2, 4 or 8 ms latencies depending on your traffic profile
preferences.
You can’t really use a second chip for monitoring in
backhaul/parabolic products if it’s not connected up to the primary
antenna or so the FCC advised, so there’s not really an easy mode.
I can’t comment in specifics on PTMP products, but technology wise
MU-MIMO and Massive MIMO can benefit from radically different antenna
designs to pack the antennas tightly and coordinate
streams/beamforming to get the best multi-user efficiencies - or
shielding with collocation in mind.
Switched antenna beam steering and dual-polarization designs in APs no
longer make a lot of sense when you go beyond a 2 stream world and
move into a Massive MIMO and MU-MIMO world where spatial/directional
multiplexing are the name of the game to create unique beamforms.
Jaime
On Aug 5, 2014, at 1:52 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@spitwspots.com
<mailto:j...@spitwspots.com>> wrote:
Constant spectral analysis was something I asked UBNT about awhile
back for AirOS and UniFi... Cisco does something similar. I guess in
the "easy method" it would doubles the chip cost in some cases, but
it's very valuable to have this info for WISPs and people deploying
high-density solutions. The ability to have the same data on the
*remote* side of the connection is just as important as well,
especially when it comes to helping identify customer issues (in the
case of PtMP).
What kind of latency hit are we talking about in a 4 way 90deg PtP
backhaul setup? Also, will you be developing your own shielded
antennas for PtMP?
Josh Reynolds, CIO
SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com/>
On 08/05/2014 12:43 PM, Jaime Fink wrote:
+1. I swear it only took us a month to implement your great idea
;) Alas good ideas do take time.
The trick Josh that we found was that it’s incredibly difficult to
change channels fast enough and settle on the usual Wi-Fi chips
which have limited driver access, often taking over 10
milliseconds of time to make the change.
This problem also had to be solved to handle constant spectrum
analysis as well without service impact, down to 150 microseconds
switching time to settle now.
Jaime
On Aug 5, 2014, at 1:24 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@spitwspots.com
<mailto:j...@spitwspots.com>> wrote:
Funny thing is, Mimosa was already hard at work on an idea I
brainstormed about in July :)
http://community.ubnt.com/t5/The-Lounge/Brainstorming-Maximizing-frequency-capacity-radio-system/m-p/899722#M32941
Josh Reynolds, CIO
SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com/>
On 08/05/2014 12:20 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
For some reason they tried to keep this whole company and
product under wraps more than everything else. Dunno why,
it's not like one couldn't figure it out or pick it up from
the intended secrecy.
At least it worked for one person =P
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Josh Reynolds
<j...@spitwspots.com <mailto:j...@spitwspots.com>> wrote:
You're... out of the loop.
Josh Reynolds, CIO
SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com/>
On 08/05/2014 12:09 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> The PtMP.
>
>
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312 <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
>
> On 8/5/14, 4:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> What are you "what"ing?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>
>>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mhop...@indigowireless.com
<mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>>
>> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 5, 2014 3:08:12 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released
>>
>> Wait... whut?
>>
>>
>> Matt Hoppes
>> Director of Information Technology
>> Indigo Wireless
>> +1 (570) 723-7312 <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
>>
>> On 8/5/14, 3:36 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>> Jamie,
>>>
>>> We're incredibly excited by your announcement, and eagerly
await PtMP ;)
>>>
>>> Josh Reynolds, CIO
>>> SPITwSPOTS
>>> www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com/>
>>>
>>> On 08/05/2014 11:30 AM, Jaime Fink wrote:
>>>> 4 for the same channel is our general recommendation for the
>>>> integrated antenna, angles will vary based on link
power/distances,
>>>> worst case is about 85 +/- 5 degrees, if we're going for max
>> performance.
>>>> That doesn't limit colocation on the tower at 4, that
number can go up
>>>> of course in different channels, and channel widths.
>>>>
>>>> We're finishing off a "colocation planner" in our cloud
tools that
>>>> automates those answers for you based on your radio
location link
>>>> plans, coming soon!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Jaime
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 5, 2014, at 12:12 PM, "Mike Hammett"
<wispawirel...@ics-il.net <mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net>
>>>> <mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net
<mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a bunch!
>>>>>
>>>>> So then is there a hard limit of 4 radios per location
or is that
>>>>> just best you could do with the integrated antenna model?
>>>>>
>>>>> Must there be an even distribution (every 90*)? I assume
not, so
>>>>> what's the minimum isolation?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I had 6' super high performance dishes, could I put
more than 4
>>>>> radios up? Not that I'm likely to use dishes that big,
but I do have
>>>>> towers with four backhauls already and I would like some
more in
>>>>> other directions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just trying to figure out where the number four came
from and how
>>>>> hard is that number.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From: *"Jaime Fink" <ja...@mimosa.co
<mailto:ja...@mimosa.co> <mailto:ja...@mimosa.co
<mailto:ja...@mimosa.co>>>
>>>>> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>>
>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:38:12 PM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> Definitely wanted to clarify on your question/comment on
colocation
>>>>> capacities for the group.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the B5 backhaul PTP technology, colocation is in
separate
>>>>> directional paths, so 4 of the B5s can be colocated
sharing the same
>>>>> channels, but must be directionally coordinated, this
leverages
>>>>> integrated 1PPS GPS+GLONASS TDMA sync.
>>>>>
>>>>> As Fred pointed out nicely, the B5 has a fantastic aperture
>>>>> efficiency integrated antenna that is about as clean as
there is out
>>>>> there, and the RF isolation techniques needed to get us
to that
>>>>> performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> No magic pixie dust, just great technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking to the future, for sharing the same antenna
pattern/path, I
>>>>> absolutely see these capacities, but that will more be
leveraged for
>>>>> PTMP beamforming and MU-MIMO technology shared across
multiple
>>>>> clients. We’re on public record about the work that
we’re doing with
>>>>> our partner Quantenna on their next generation
technology they’ve
>>>>> announced for 2015 called 10G Wi-Fi. You can imagine the
amount of
>>>>> compute that takes, bordering more on magic pixie dust!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Jaime Fink* • *Mimosa* • *Chief Product Officer*
>>>>> 300 Orchard City Dr Ste 100 • Campbell • CA 95008 •
www.mimosa.co <http://www.mimosa.co/>
>>>>> <http://www.mimosa.co <http://www.mimosa.co/>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged
material for the
>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use,
distribution
>>>>> or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you
are not the
>>>>> intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the
recipient),
>>>>> please contact the sender by reply email and delete all
copies of
>>>>> this message.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 5, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Mike Hammett
<wispawirel...@ics-il.net <mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net>
>>>>> <mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net
<mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >From a TechCrunch article:
>>>>>
>>>>> The B5 backhaul radio is a piece of hardware that uses
>>>>> multiple-input and multiple-output (MIMO) technology to
provide
>>>>> up to 16 streams and 4 Gbps of output when multiple
radios are
>>>>> using the same channel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I wonder if that is four radios on the same
path? If so,
>>>>> that's pretty amazing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From: *"Fred Goldstein" <fgoldst...@ionary.com
<mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com>
>>>>> <mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com
<mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com>>>
>>>>> *To: *wireless@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 5, 2014 11:21:29 AM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/5/2014 11:21 AM, Adair Winter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't want to be negative nelly this morning. But
that was
>>>>> my thought also..
>>>>> I'm moving as much as possible to licensed links because I
>>>>> can't hardly keep my 5Ghz PtP's running out of my data
center.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The 5 GHz band is getting quite crowded, but at
least this new
>>>>> radio seems to be efficient in how it uses the
spectrum. Any of
>>>>> these U-NII radios essentially transmits based on
demand. If
>>>>> traffic is 10 Mbps and the link is capable of 500 Mbps,
it won't
>>>>> be on the air very much of the time. So it doesn't
need the
>>>>> frequency all to itself. We are doing a lot of urban
links and
>>>>> share the frequencies with all sorts of stuff,
including "Cable
>>>>> WiFi" (all over, even below 5250, ugh), but it doesn't kill
>>>>> performance, at least for the type of moderate load
applications
>>>>> (mostly cameras) we're supporting on 5 GHz.
>>>>>
>>>>> We do most of the backhaul on higher frequencies
but 5 GHz is
>>>>> sometimes used as a backup to take over during rain
fade. During
>>>>> the storm last week that brought a tornado just a
few subway
>>>>> stops from downtown Boston, we even lost 11 GHz links
for time.
>>>>> The rainfall was off the charts for the second time
in a month.
>>>>> But 5 Ghz links hardly noticed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also to Mimosa's credit, it comes with a 44 cm 25
dB dish, whose
>>>>> narrowness helps with frequency reuse. It will
probably produce
>>>>> a lot less clutter than outdoor access points, or
even some
>>>>> indoor access points that use more power than
necessary. (We put
>>>>> a NanoBridge 5G25 on a hilltop and were able to
pick up WLANs
>>>>> inside office towers four miles away.) And they are
petitioning
>>>>> the FCC to open up 10 GHz under Part 90 (light
licensing, like
>> 3650).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Matt Hoppes
>>>>> <mhop...@indigowireless.com
<mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>
>>>>> <mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
<mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh dear.... so more backhauling noise on the 5GHz
spectrum?
>>>>>
>>>>> AF5 + Mimosa....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt Hoppes
>>>>> Director of Information Technology
>>>>> Indigo Wireless
>>>>> +1 (570) 723-7312 <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
<tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/5/14, 9:31 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>>>> > Have to give them credit on the website. Nice look J
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > *_Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer_**Author
>>>>> of "Learn
>>>>> > RouterOS- Second Edition
>>>>> > <http://www.wlan1.com/product_p/mikrotik%20book-2.htm>”
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support
>>>>> > Services
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Office*: 314-735-0270 <tel:314-735-0270>
<tel:314-735-0270 <tel:314-735-0270>>
>>>>> <tel:314-735-0270 <tel:314-735-0270>
<tel:314-735-0270 <tel:314-735-0270>>> *Website*:
>>>>> > http://www.linktechs.net
<http://www.linktechs.net/> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>>>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/> – *Skype*:
>>>>> > linktechs
>>>>> > <skype:linktechs?call>
>>>>> > */ /**/-- Create Wireless Coverage’s with
>>>>> /*www.towercoverage.com
<http://www.towercoverage.com/> <http://www.towercoverage.com/>
>>>>> > <http://www.towercoverage.com/>*//*/–*900Mhz – LTE – 3G
>>>>> – 3.65 – TV
>>>>> > Whitespace */
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
>>>>> <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>>
>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
>>>>> <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>>]
>>>>> > *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
>>>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 05, 2014 7:49 AM
>>>>> > *To:* WISPA General List
>>>>> > *Subject:* [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://www.mimosa.co/home/b5-page.html
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Gino A. Villarini
>>>>> >
>>>>> > President
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > @aeronetpr
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Wireless mailing list
>>>>> > Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>>
>>>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wireless mailing list
>>>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Adair Winter
>>>>> VP of Network Operations / Owner
>>>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <tel:806.316.5071>
>>>>> C: 806.231.7180 <tel:806.231.7180>
>>>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
<http://www.amarillowireless.net/>
>>>>> <http://www.amarillowireless.net/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wireless mailing list
>>>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred "at" interisle.net
<http://interisle.net/>
>> <http://interisle.net <http://interisle.net/>>
>>>>> Interisle Consulting Group
>>>>> +1 617 795 2701 <tel:%2B1%20617%20795%202701>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wireless mailing list
>>>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wireless mailing list
>>>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wireless mailing list
>>>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wireless mailing list
>>>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>>
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wireless mailing list
>>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wireless mailing list
>>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wireless mailing list
>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wireless mailing list
>> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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