haha....alex made some good comments. Having a unanimous body does not make for a solid structure. Removing the ability to question a system doesnt make it better. Questioning and probing while anoying at 5 am after you spent all day/night debugging, is essential to preserving the integrity of that system. Thats kinda like what the US is based on dont you think? Free speech, freedom of the press and all.
thats my take on it atleast (: ----- Original Message ----- From: "JJ Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Multiple recipients of list witango-talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 5:22 PM Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: New beta release? > I would like to add to the comments made by Atrix. I > think the work being done at With Enterprise is truly > excellent. > > I have restrained myself as I'm sure many others have > from getting into a catfight with Alex Kac. I think at > this stage none of the members are taking any notice > of him as he goes on these little rants like a spoilt > child on Christmas eve. I have been on this list for > some time and I have never seen so much hassle to be > caused by one individual. Having not been away from > Witango for quite some time (and I quote "So I > unsubscribed. Then I subscribed again right before > Macworld. So yes, I'm coming in as an > outsider")...Alex came back demanding answers - on the > 2nd of August he had 25 posts to the list. From what I > can see others such as Robert Garcia and Scott > Cadillac had to run off and get stuff done (such as > screenshots). > > I do not want to go through everything Alex has said > (I think I could though) but I think one sentence he > gave us sums up what we're dealing with - "In fact, at > one point I spent a week in the Tango Server source > code - I know how it works." Now I have not seen the > Tango Source Code but if you can work it out in a week > then you really shouldn't be dealing with people like > us. > > I think the team in Sydney and Phil must get > frustrated with the comments Alex leaves. If Phil said > the earth was round Alex would say well at Pervasive > this wasn't a problem for us. > > Finally and before I go on the run perception is not > reality. If you are in a room with the lights off does > that mean the room is not there? Being from Texas it > would be difficult to say anything other than "Why > Tango" - thankfully the rest of us can say it as it > is. > > JJ Smith > boomboom > > > > --- Atrix Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I for one just want to say Thank you Phil for all > > the hard work and personal > > risk youve put into keeping this product alive and > > bringing it to a new > > level with this upcoming beta release. You make our > > jobs (which for the > > most part provide services to others) possible. > > Theres the old saying that > > if you give a man a fish he can eat for a day, but > > if you teach the man how > > to fish he can eat the rest of his life. You and > > your team do this one step > > better. You give us the tools to allow us to "teach > > our clients to fish", > > giving us the power to provide quality products to > > our customers. > > > > Once again, thank you and keep up the good work. > > > > -Atrix > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Aleksei Kac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list witango-talk" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:26 PM > > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: New beta release? > > > > > > Comments below (who would have guessed?) > > > > On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 01:56 PM, Phil Wade > > wrote: > > > > > Let me start by saying, do not start an entire > > thread on this subject > > > that > > > goes on for hours or even days. Everyone else on > > the list has better > > > things > > > to do with their time as do my engineering team > > and myself (which is > > > why we > > > do not respond to this type of thread). > > > > My original email was not meant to start a huge > > thread. I had asked a > > simple question. I got answers that had nothing to > > do with the > > question. So I kept trying to ask the question. If I > > would have just > > shrugged and said, ah nevermind - who would be > > better off? > > > > > > > > It is coming up to 5:00am in the morning here in > > Australia and myself > > > and a > > > few of my team have just finished a very long day > > doing the final > > > testing of > > > the installers and uploading of the first of the > > installers ready for > > > the > > > public beta. We have the a beta testers site > > finished and ready to go > > > live > > > as soon as the installers are Oked by the private > > beta testers - the so > > > called "insiders". As soon as I get an OK from > > them all, the Public > > > Beta > > > will begin. Yes, Alex/Stephen, we are now > > literally 36 hours away from > > > providing you with betas of v5. I hope you can > > hold on just a few > > > hours > > > more. > > > > Of course :) But I do disagree with the fact that > > you did not respond > > to the original thread. A simple - "We'll let you > > know in about one to > > two weeks." directly from you - would have stopped > > the thread. > > > > > > > > I understand that everyone is "interested" and > > chomping at the bit > > > regarding > > > the new release, but from our point of view, we > > have one chance to get > > > the > > > underlying architecture correct and stable. > > First impressions are > > > very > > > important and we are expecting that there are many > > of you that will be > > > public and harsh in your criticism. This is why > > we have kept the the > > > project in-house and we only announced what we > > wanted to announce. > > > There > > > have been a lot of architectural changes that we > > have had to make > > > which will > > > not please everyone, but it is all documented on > > the beta site. > > > > No new major release pleases everyone - but the > > communication part is > > the most important. What hurts communities most is > > the wondering, the > > speculation. > > > > > > > > The new release is aimed at actually delivering > > the performance and > > > stability that the server should have had years > > ago. Our long term > > > goal is > > > to do away with server watcher and actually > > deliver stability instead > > > of the > > > impression of stability. It was a great crutch > > for T2K, but it is now > > > time > > > that the server to not rely on such mechanisms. > > For this to happen, it > > > means that there needs to be commitment from both > > sides of Witango. I > > > can > > > assure you that I have a very talented and > > committed team that is more > > > than > > > capable of delivering the features, performance > > and stability to the > > > Witango > > > technologies that you as developers require. > > > > Andre is extremely talented I agree. And I applaud > > the long term goal. > > > > > > > > What we need in return is commitment from the > > developer community that > > > they > > > will help themselves by reporting crashes, bugs, > > etc back to us and > > > provide > > > us with the test cases and information we require > > to be able to > > > continually > > > make Witango better. To date we have had less > > than 20 bugs reported > > > to us, > > > and they have been reported by only 4 individuals. > > > > In the past, this has not been a problem for me. > > Before working at > > Pervasive, I had worked very hard with Julie Reed > > and many of the > > developers directly at Everyware to solve issues. > > I've done the same > > with WebTen when I was using that - on both products > > spending many > > hours on the phone in the middle of the night. I > > don't have that kind > > of time now, but if the product is worth using, I > > have always spent the > > time to track down the issues. I expect the same of > > anybody who things > > the product is worth it. > > > > > > > > As a developer community you also have a > > commitment to yourselves to > > > make > > > and maintain your community of developers where > > code, ideas, > > > solutions, etc > > > are openly shared. A community is about 'us' and > > 'we' not 'me' and > > > 'I'. It > > > is easy to say, "I built something like that", it > > is just as easy to > > > attach > > > a taf or two that shows how it is done. On this > > point, I commend > > > people > > > like Robert, Ben, Scott, Gauthier and a few others > > for sharing their > > > code. > > > > I have always agreed with that. Most of my code > > (that wasn't tied to a > > specific client back in my consulting days) were > > shared with the Tango > > community. Most of the code written while at PVSW > > was shared as well - > > though some of my better work was not allowed to be > > shared. > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body
