I'm sorry you have perceived my comments that way. I believe I have kept almost all my comments on topic about WiTango - and have received quite a few personal attacks here. I am beginning to think that this community does not like people speaking their minds or questioning how a product is going to meet THEIR needs. That's why I was here - to talk to the people still here and see how it met my needs.
If it sounded childish, then I can only say that I felt like a parent speaking to my children asking them why they did something foolish only to hear babble. When that happens, I tend to try to speak on that level - to get the point across. As far as "knowing the Tango code" - yes, after spending a week with it, I know the T2k architecture. that's all. Just like any good developer learns the archicture of the environment he's working on. You mistook that to mean that I meant that I could rewrite Tango from scratch...not at all. Just that I knew how it worked on an architectural level - at a very high level. Look guys, I'm sorry for speaking my mind here...sheesh. After waiting for weeks for some answers and getting treated like this - I'm done. Thanks for the interesting time. On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 07:22 PM, JJ Smith wrote: > I would like to add to the comments made by Atrix. I > think the work being done at With Enterprise is truly > excellent. > > I have restrained myself as I'm sure many others have > from getting into a catfight with Alex Kac. I think at > this stage none of the members are taking any notice > of him as he goes on these little rants like a spoilt > child on Christmas eve. I have been on this list for > some time and I have never seen so much hassle to be > caused by one individual. Having not been away from > Witango for quite some time (and I quote "So I > unsubscribed. Then I subscribed again right before > Macworld. So yes, I'm coming in as an > outsider")...Alex came back demanding answers - on the > 2nd of August he had 25 posts to the list. From what I > can see others such as Robert Garcia and Scott > Cadillac had to run off and get stuff done (such as > screenshots). > > I do not want to go through everything Alex has said > (I think I could though) but I think one sentence he > gave us sums up what we're dealing with - "In fact, at > one point I spent a week in the Tango Server source > code - I know how it works." Now I have not seen the > Tango Source Code but if you can work it out in a week > then you really shouldn't be dealing with people like > us. > > I think the team in Sydney and Phil must get > frustrated with the comments Alex leaves. If Phil said > the earth was round Alex would say well at Pervasive > this wasn't a problem for us. > > Finally and before I go on the run perception is not > reality. If you are in a room with the lights off does > that mean the room is not there? Being from Texas it > would be difficult to say anything other than "Why > Tango" - thankfully the rest of us can say it as it > is. > > JJ Smith > boomboom > > > > --- Atrix Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I for one just want to say Thank you Phil for all >> the hard work and personal >> risk youve put into keeping this product alive and >> bringing it to a new >> level with this upcoming beta release. You make our >> jobs (which for the >> most part provide services to others) possible. >> Theres the old saying that >> if you give a man a fish he can eat for a day, but >> if you teach the man how >> to fish he can eat the rest of his life. You and >> your team do this one step >> better. You give us the tools to allow us to "teach >> our clients to fish", >> giving us the power to provide quality products to >> our customers. >> >> Once again, thank you and keep up the good work. >> >> -Atrix >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Aleksei Kac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Multiple recipients of list witango-talk" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:26 PM >> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: New beta release? >> >> >> Comments below (who would have guessed?) >> >> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 01:56 PM, Phil Wade >> wrote: >> >>> Let me start by saying, do not start an entire >> thread on this subject >>> that >>> goes on for hours or even days. Everyone else on >> the list has better >>> things >>> to do with their time as do my engineering team >> and myself (which is >>> why we >>> do not respond to this type of thread). >> >> My original email was not meant to start a huge >> thread. I had asked a >> simple question. I got answers that had nothing to >> do with the >> question. So I kept trying to ask the question. If I >> would have just >> shrugged and said, ah nevermind - who would be >> better off? >> >>> >>> It is coming up to 5:00am in the morning here in >> Australia and myself >>> and a >>> few of my team have just finished a very long day >> doing the final >>> testing of >>> the installers and uploading of the first of the >> installers ready for >>> the >>> public beta. We have the a beta testers site >> finished and ready to go >>> live >>> as soon as the installers are Oked by the private >> beta testers - the so >>> called "insiders". As soon as I get an OK from >> them all, the Public >>> Beta >>> will begin. Yes, Alex/Stephen, we are now >> literally 36 hours away from >>> providing you with betas of v5. I hope you can >> hold on just a few >>> hours >>> more. >> >> Of course :) But I do disagree with the fact that >> you did not respond >> to the original thread. A simple - "We'll let you >> know in about one to >> two weeks." directly from you - would have stopped >> the thread. >> >>> >>> I understand that everyone is "interested" and >> chomping at the bit >>> regarding >>> the new release, but from our point of view, we >> have one chance to get >>> the >>> underlying architecture correct and stable. >> First impressions are >>> very >>> important and we are expecting that there are many >> of you that will be >>> public and harsh in your criticism. This is why >> we have kept the the >>> project in-house and we only announced what we >> wanted to announce. >>> There >>> have been a lot of architectural changes that we >> have had to make >>> which will >>> not please everyone, but it is all documented on >> the beta site. >> >> No new major release pleases everyone - but the >> communication part is >> the most important. What hurts communities most is >> the wondering, the >> speculation. >> >>> >>> The new release is aimed at actually delivering >> the performance and >>> stability that the server should have had years >> ago. Our long term >>> goal is >>> to do away with server watcher and actually >> deliver stability instead >>> of the >>> impression of stability. It was a great crutch >> for T2K, but it is now >>> time >>> that the server to not rely on such mechanisms. >> For this to happen, it >>> means that there needs to be commitment from both >> sides of Witango. I >>> can >>> assure you that I have a very talented and >> committed team that is more >>> than >>> capable of delivering the features, performance >> and stability to the >>> Witango >>> technologies that you as developers require. >> >> Andre is extremely talented I agree. And I applaud >> the long term goal. >> >>> >>> What we need in return is commitment from the >> developer community that >>> they >>> will help themselves by reporting crashes, bugs, >> etc back to us and >>> provide >>> us with the test cases and information we require >> to be able to >>> continually >>> make Witango better. To date we have had less >> than 20 bugs reported >>> to us, >>> and they have been reported by only 4 individuals. >> >> In the past, this has not been a problem for me. >> Before working at >> Pervasive, I had worked very hard with Julie Reed >> and many of the >> developers directly at Everyware to solve issues. >> I've done the same >> with WebTen when I was using that - on both products >> spending many >> hours on the phone in the middle of the night. I >> don't have that kind >> of time now, but if the product is worth using, I >> have always spent the >> time to track down the issues. I expect the same of >> anybody who things >> the product is worth it. >> >>> >>> As a developer community you also have a >> commitment to yourselves to >>> make >>> and maintain your community of developers where >> code, ideas, >>> solutions, etc >>> are openly shared. A community is about 'us' and >> 'we' not 'me' and >>> 'I'. It >>> is easy to say, "I built something like that", it >> is just as easy to >>> attach >>> a taf or two that shows how it is done. On this >> point, I commend >>> people >>> like Robert, Ben, Scott, Gauthier and a few others >> for sharing their >>> code. >> >> I have always agreed with that. Most of my code >> (that wasn't tied to a >> specific client back in my consulting days) were >> shared with the Tango >> community. Most of the code written while at PVSW >> was shared as well - >> though some of my better work was not allowed to be >> shared. > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > -- � Alex Kac, CEO/Developer Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management http://www.pocketinformant.com/ � zoomzoom ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body
