Needless to say that your application should progressively enhance<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Enhancement>through the presentation layers. So, irrespective of what technology (or mix of technologies) you are using, the basic (X)HTML page should make total sense with everything (images, css, javascript and flash) switched off and nicely 'upgrade' as you add each new piece of technology to it. The basics always stay the same, hence <fieldset> ought to be inside a <form> as your page ought to work with JavaScript turned off. Regards, Jason www.flexewebs.com
On 5/20/08, Svip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What if your fieldset is intended for an AJAX application? And thus > will not require a form (as your data is not sent through the form, > but is picked up by javascript)? Indeed, my opinion is that a > fieldset should only contain form elements, but not necessarily be > inside a form tag. > > I do disagree with Julián's approach. Also, if I may add, strong > should only be used as an inline element (you cannot really compare hN > with strong, headlines are block elements, while strong is inline) and > only in a case where you have a "strong" point to make, and not a > replacement for making bold text. > > Regards, > Svip > > 2008/5/20 Jason Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Hello Julian, > > > > If you are unsure about what an HTML tag is there for, look up in the W3C > > specs. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-FIELDSET > > > > It is pretty clear to me there that <fieldset> element exists for the > > purpose of grouping form elements together, and not for other purposes. > It > > aids accessibility and overall meaning of (larger) forms. > > > > Hence I would strongly argue that <fieldset> should not be used outside a > > <form> and should not be used for purposes of styling for we have CSS. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Regards, > > > > Jason > > www.flexewebs.com > > www.flexewebs.wordpress.com > > www.twitter.com/flexewebs > > www.facebook.com/pages/London/Flexewebs/11264349395 > > > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Julián Landerreche > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > >> A workmate come with this idea, which then I have searched on web and > >> haven't found too much information about it, but this: [1] and [2]. > >> > >> The idea: using fieldset and legend for adding structural markup/labes > >> [3]. > >> It seems that using fieldsets _outside_ forms doesn't make the code to > >> invalidate. Also, in HTML 4.01, legend is required, but optional in > XHTML. > >> > >> Currently, I like the approach of adding structural markup using a > heading > >> (<hn class="structural">) even just a simple <strong > class="structural">, > >> and if necessary, hide them by CSS > >> I borrowed the idea from NetRelations.se and 456bereastreet.com. > >> > >> Example: > >> > >> <div id="main-nav"> > >> <strong class="structural">Main navigation</strong> <!-- or <hn>Main > >> navigation</hn> --> > >> <ul> > >> <li><a>Section 1</a></li> > >> <li><a>Section 2</a></li> > >> <li><a>Section 3</a></li> > >> </ul> > >> </div> > >> > >> So, applying fieldset and legend this could be rewritten like this: > >> > >> <fieldset id="main-nav"> > >> <legend class="structural">Main navigation</legend> > >> <ul> > >> <li><a>Section 1</a></li> > >> <li><a>Section 2</a></li> > >> <li><a>Section 3</a></li> > >> </ul> > >> </fieldset> > >> > >> Another example: a list of actions (that are in fact, simple links, so, > >> it's just another navigation) where it could make even more sense. > >> > >> <fieldset id="actions"> > >> <legend class="structural">You can do the following</legend> > >> <ul> > >> <li><a>Create</a></li> > >> <li><a>Delete</a></li> > >> <li><a>Edit</a></li> > >> </ul> > >> </fieldset> > >> > >> Putting aside anything related to CSS styling (legends could be > difficult > >> to style, but aren't really difficult to hide using display:none; > although > >> using position: absolute; left:-9999px could be better for accesibility, > but > >> that positioning method on legends has inconsistencies across browsers): > >> > >> 1. Could there be accessibility issues using fieldset/legend outside a > >> form? > >> 2. Or could this method enhance the accessibility (in fact, structural > >> labels enhance accessibility)? > >> 3. Is there any other research/resource that can add some light on this? > >> > >> Thanks. > >> Julián. > >> > >> [1] http://www.opendesigns.org/forum/discussion/2047/ > >> [2] http://drupal.org/node/233928 > >> [3] http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ******************************************************************* > >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > >> Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> ******************************************************************* > > > > ******************************************************************* > > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ******************************************************************* > > ******************************************************************* > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ******************************************************************* ******************************************************************* List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *******************************************************************
