On 19/10/2010, at 8:47 AM, David Lawley wrote: > Hi all, > > What? Triadis chose to supply their equipement with XCSoar. If I bought a HP > device I would expect HP to support the *supplied* operational software, > irrespective of whether it is propritery or open source.
This is pure nonsense. You do buy HP devices - they are called Compaq - do they support XCSoar ? No ! It is also unrealistic for the supplier of the hardware and software to even support new versions of that software (e.g. your HP Compaq does not run Windows Mobile 6). It is purely a choice. Some companies supply a device, like a Linksys router, running LInux, that they do support. Others supply Notebooks with Linux installed that they do not support. It is a choice from each hardware manufacture, and there is no rules one way or another. Now I don't necessarily agree with it being right or wrong, it is just a fact that some hardware has supported software and some hardware does not. You buy a Mac OS Laptop, Apple support the OS (within reason of course, you can add extensions which they will not support - in fact they would format the machine if it was not working with their default OS before they supported a problem). Now you buy an HP Laptop, they don't even support Windows. Why should they, that is a MS product. But worse still, they can't be forward compatible for ever. If a new version of Windows Vista or Windows 7 comes out, is that expected to work on all old laptops, just because they supported Windows XP. That is also a ridiculous requirement. It only supports the version it was released with, not forward compatible for ever. Lets take another example - PNA - also known as car GPS - these often have a particular version of a well known GPS software, eg. Mio - but when a new version of Mio comes out, will it work on the old devices, no probably not. Now an open source example - Android Phones - most suppliers of Android phones are NOT allowing updates to the newer versions of Android - they provide them with something like 1.3, and will not support 2.1. Now you can install on some of these newer versions like 2.1 or even the current stable 2.2 but not always, and you won't get support. My last example is probably the most relevant. It is equivalent to the Altair model. The reasons I say this, is that there is problems with support that I have, and there are problems with people expectations which I also have. My personal belief is that the model for Altair should be like an Android Phone. ie. They do support XCSoar, but that they only support 5.22 (or what ever it is based on). Yes that does mean they should release 5.23 or something that may fix a bug in waypoints or similar - and I believe that is the whole point of the "Triadis" release that the EU Pilots use. But I am not certain about which versions have that bug. What I definitely do not expect from a supported device, whether it is my LInksys router, my Android phone, or (if I had one) my Altair - is that they always support the latest version. There is this weird expectation in users of this product that they want it both ways - they want the open source version to be supported no matter which direction it takes. What if we made the open source version only run on Linux ? What if made it impossible to support Windows CE - this is a real possibility - that means it would not work on your old Compaq (eventually we have to stop supporting 5 year old technology) or eventually on Altair, which is also Windows CE. On another track, there is an expectation here that suppliers in Australia should support the manufacturers product. If my Apple laptop hardware breaks that I bought from a local shop, within the warranty period (usually 1 year) then I would expect them to fix it. If the software broke, they would not help me - they might send me off to the Apple web site, or reformat disk to prove it is not hardware. Now Apple has bugs, I have crashes, we know they are bugs, is that the responsibility of the local supplier? Of course outside the warranty they wouldn't lift a finger. So the expectations you should have from a local distributor is that they support the hardware, and that they should put on the Altair released version or it is not supported. Let me conclude with one more thing. I do believe that a manufacturer should support their release of an open source product. I think, and I might get grumpy looks from Sam & Mark - please forgive me if I put undue pressure on you, and that this is only my own opinion - that the two major suppliers and the manufacturer should do only support for the Triadis release. To expect them to release or ever support XCSoar 6 is unrealistic. Now that is off my chest, I do expect that Triadis and others help out. By help out I mean contribute code (done), provide hardware (in progress) and generally support the community in trying to get XCSoar 6 on Altair - but I would not expect them to support it. If you have a problem/bug/hardware issue, I would expect them to require you to go back to the release that was made with their product - as any other hardware manufacturer using open source (linksys, Android phones, even Apple which has lots of open source installed) would do. * Triadis has paid back XCSoar in kind many times over * Triadis are now helping support XCSoar 6 by providing code and hardware * (my opinion) Triadis and local suppliers should support the official release, and not treat this just like a laptop, but more like a PNA/Android Phone. * Don't expect XCSoar 6 to ever be supported - it may be, but I don't think it will. * Do expect XCSoar 6 to work on Altair - the hardware is new enough that at least this major release should work ok * Don't put unrealistic future proof requirements on suppliers of hardware - you don't for your phone, car, microwave, DVD player Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. 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