Just a clarification for David: I think the idea of this forum is not how we bash VANS and forget the fact that they got EC to the point it is now, but how do we use XML to help our customers expand, in some case replace EDI and VAN traffic, and otherwise achieve total electronic business processes as applicable. Network traffic is not the point, implementing trading communities and managing them is. All "VANS" have broken out their pricing, XML-ised their products and embraced use of the internet and XML. Virtually all customers who have EDI programs are looking to use the internet and XML to expand their buy and sell side reach. Secure network traffic, standards such as X12 and EDIFACT, and traditional EDI traffic such as advanced ship notices, are continuing to grow alongside internet and XML transactions. Smart companies know that XML and the internet are additional tools to grow business and cut costs. Many are dabbling in XML while waiting for the more than 500 different groups developing XML "standards" to sort themselves out. Oh, and anyone who knows William would never accuse him of riding Sterling's coattails. David Irvine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 07/20/2000 11:05:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: Roger Trout/Sterling Commerce) Subject: RE: Test vs. Production Hi William: Interesting response. I take exception to your closing paragraph, however. Dublin, Ohio, eh? Riding Sterling's coatstrings? The paragraph at issue, however is: Out of curiosity, just what is your customer doing in XML? What XML "messages" are being used? Which industry? Couldn't the customer have just used EDI? Why all this rush to use XML? /s A Luddite, A Luddite? The reference may be lost on others, but not on me. Why go away from traditional EDI? You haven't been paying attention, have you. First, traditional EDI is the domain of the VANs, who charge by the kilocharacter. The web is free - for companies doing real EDI, this is a significant savings. Further, isn't the point of this forum to recommend, refine, and encourage the use of XML. If we want to make a paradigm shift in B-2-B communication, and I, for one, do, then we have to support, help standardize, and use, new key technologies. Keep on Sterling's payroll, buddy. Cheers, Dave Irvine -----Original Message----- From: William J. Kammerer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: July 19, 2000 11:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: ebXML Transport (E-mail); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; X12X TG4 XML Subject: Re: Test vs. Production Doug Anderson, of Kleinschmidt Inc., has written all around with: Today in EDI we have a test/production indicator in the header (ISA in ASC X12, UNB in UN/EDIFACT) that allows someone to route the data to the correct system. Is there something similar in XML either in use today or on the drawing board? We don't want to create something if this has already been solved. We have a customer that will be moving some of their trading partners into production and would prefer not to have to change receiver ID's in order to differentiate between those trading partners in test vs. those in production. Dear Doug: The ebXML Initiative is developing a specification for Transport, Packaging and Routing, roughly the analog of Internet EDI (EDIINT) and ISO 9735 control information slapped together. You can find the latest specifications at http://www.ebxml.org/specindex.htm, including the ebXML TR&P Overview & Requirements v0-96 and the ebXML Message Envelope Specification v0-5. Neither seem to cover this topic explicitly, though the ebxmlheader <ServiceType> element, which looks like it is used for internal routing to the appropriate application, might be called into service for differentiating test and production. ebXML is not ready for prime-time, yet. I've copied this to the ebXML TR&P group so they vet my answer and add the requirement to their "To-Do" list. You can also take a look at the BizTalk Framework 2.0, at http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/articles/biztalk/biztalkfwv2draft.asp. N.B., BizTalk is now based on SOAP; it doesn't seem to have made a provision for testing, either. You probably want the indicator to be available in the transport and packaging framework, rather than embedded within the application message (e.g., the Open Travel Alliance (OTA) message root tag has a production/test indicator). Another alternative is to take the XML message and wrap it up in an ANSI ASC X12 102 Associated Data transaction set! Then you can avail yourself of the existing X12 headers to route the data. This would be the most painless route for a "legacy" VAN, wouldn't it? Out of curiosity, just what is your customer doing in XML? What XML "messages" are being used? Which industry? Couldn't the customer have just used EDI? Why all this rush to use XML? /s A Luddite, William J. Kammerer FORESIGHT Corp. 4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy. Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305 +1 614 791-1600 Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/ "Commerce for a New World" ------ XML/edi Group Discussion List ------ Homepage = http://www.XMLedi-Group.org Unsubscribe = send email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leave the subject and body of the message blank Questions/requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To receive only one message per day (digest format) send the following message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], (leave the subject line blank) digest xmledi-group your-email-address To join the XML/edi Group complete the form located at: http://www.xmledi-group.org/xmledigroup/mail1.htm ------ XML/edi Group Discussion List ------ Homepage = http://www.XMLedi-Group.org Unsubscribe = send email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leave the subject and body of the message blank Questions/requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To receive only one message per day (digest format) send the following message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], (leave the subject line blank) digest xmledi-group your-email-address To join the XML/edi Group complete the form located at: http://www.xmledi-group.org/xmledigroup/mail1.htmTitle: RE: Test vs. Production Q
Hi William:
Interesting response. I take exception to your closing paragraph, however. Dublin, Ohio, eh? Riding Sterling's coatstrings? The paragraph at issue, however is:
Out of curiosity, just what is your customer doing in XML? What XML
"messages" are being used? Which industry? Couldn't the customer have
just used EDI? Why all this rush to use XML?
/s
A Luddite,
A Luddite? The reference may be lost on others, but not on me. Why go away from traditional EDI? You haven't been paying attention, have you. First, traditional EDI is the domain of the VANs, who charge by the kilocharacter. The web is free - for companies doing real EDI, this is a significant savings. Further, isn't the point of this forum to recommend, refine, and encourage the use of XML. If we want to make a paradigm shift in B-2-B communication, and I, for one, do, then we have to support, help standardize, and use, new key technologies. Keep on Sterling's payroll, buddy.
Cheers,
Dave Irvine
-----Original Message-----
From: William J. Kammerer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: July 19, 2000 11:54 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: ebXML Transport (E-mail); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; X12X TG4 XML
Subject: Re: Test vs. Production
Doug Anderson, of Kleinschmidt Inc., has written all around with:
Today in EDI we have a test/production indicator in the header
(ISA in ASC X12, UNB in UN/EDIFACT) that allows someone to route
the data to the correct system. Is there something similar in
XML either in use today or on the drawing board? We don't want
to create something if this has already been solved. We have a
customer that will be moving some of their trading partners into
production and would prefer not to have to change receiver ID's
in order to differentiate between those trading partners in test
vs. those in production.
Dear Doug:
The ebXML Initiative is developing a specification for Transport,
Packaging and Routing, roughly the analog of Internet EDI (EDIINT) and
ISO 9735 control information slapped together. You can find the latest
specifications at http://www.ebxml.org/specindex.htm, including the
ebXML TR&P Overview & Requirements v0-96 and the ebXML Message Envelope
Specification v0-5. Neither seem to cover this topic explicitly, though
the ebxmlheader <ServiceType> element, which looks like it is used for
internal routing to the appropriate application, might be called into
service for differentiating test and production. ebXML is not ready for
prime-time, yet. I've copied this to the ebXML TR&P group so they vet my
answer and add the requirement to their "To-Do" list.
You can also take a look at the BizTalk Framework 2.0, at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/articles/biztalk/biztalkfwv2draft.asp.
N.B., BizTalk is now based on SOAP; it doesn't seem to have made a
provision for testing, either.
You probably want the indicator to be available in the transport and
packaging framework, rather than embedded within the application message
(e.g., the Open Travel Alliance (OTA) message root tag has a
production/test indicator).
Another alternative is to take the XML message and wrap it up in an ANSI
ASC X12 102 Associated Data transaction set! Then you can avail
yourself of the existing X12 headers to route the data. This would be
the most painless route for a "legacy" VAN, wouldn't it?
Out of curiosity, just what is your customer doing in XML? What XML
"messages" are being used? Which industry? Couldn't the customer have
just used EDI? Why all this rush to use XML?
/s
A Luddite,
William J. Kammerer
FORESIGHT Corp.
4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy.
Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305
+1 614 791-1600
Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/
"Commerce for a New World"
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Questions/requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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