Hear, hear, William! Yes, Please don't take this off line. I assure you, you do have
an audience listening!! I also am very interested in this discussion. Although each
side is certainly prejudiced (I say this kindly) to their way of thinking because they
represent competing technologies, we are still seeing a real pros vs. cons sort of
battle of ideas. That is exactly why I monitor this thread (in fact that is why I
started it :) ).
I do disagree with you William on the point of the colored text. when re-reading
passages again and again it is nice to be able to focus on the text that is added in
this new response to a response to a response. Speeds assimilation of the new data
added. I vote yes on the colors.
The one improvement I would like to see is more real world metrics to substantiate the
arguments of each side. I'm not trying to pick on anyone in particular here. For
example:
1. Dick mentioned a 14.3 second average in sending a 1K XML message and getting an
functional ack back (Trading partner's confirmation that the message arrived). Good
start for metrics. I would like more details, for example: how many instances went
into the average. was it 3 or 100? what did the bell curve look like? If 90% between
13 to 17 seconds and the slowest/fastest was 35/10 this is significantly different
than if a high percentage was at 9 seconds but 17% of the 100 tries was more than 2
minutes say. I'd want to know what factors cause the 17% because I'd like to know
more about how that much slow down one-sixth of the time would affect me in the real
world.
2. Mark mentioned some interesting numbers on cost. On the other hand, the metric of
"can take up to 100 times as long as a simple deposit of a file", is too vague. Out
of 100 tries was this just once at the far end of the bell curve. The "up to" part of
the statement can be very misleading. What is the average in a real world,
un-prejudiced test? If the average is only 1.3 times as long, that paints an entirely
different picture. Also no actual numbers are given on both sides for anyone else on
this list to dispute. An example could be: a benchmark that says 10,000 attempts to
connect to my VAN from 14 different clients in differing environments took an average
of 2.1 seconds for the complete login, authorization, and ready to upload state. This
was done this many times at peak hours vs. so many in off hours and here are the
complete numbers. THEN we would all have something concrete we could either accept,
dispute, query with further data, etc.
I am not trying criticize anyone's data here. I am just trying to point out I'd like
to see more metrics in the discussion.
Thanks,
Steve
At 10:40 AM 7/25/00 -0400, William J. Kammerer wrote:
>Dick Brooks, of Group 8760, is "becoming concerned that this thread
>may not be of interest to the entire xmledi list, perhaps we should take
>this discussion off list."
>
>No, Dick, I think it's very interesting. You, Mark Malatak, of
>Fountainhead Communications, and Doug Anderson, of Kleinschmidt, are
>making us all aware of the various pros and cons of direct vs.
>store-and-forward B2B messaging. Why would you want to waste your time
>discussing this off the list, arguing with a competitor in front of no
>audience in particular?
>
>I might request, though, that you organize your e-mails so they are
>readable, even if you have to paraphrase previous comments. This HTML
>and color business is making it too hard to follow.
>
>I'd also like to emphasize that direct point-to-point Internet EDI means
>both or all Trading Partners must use compatible software, and requires
>extensive set-up, key exchange, etc. etc. Moving to Internet EDI is not
>something that makes sense to do all by yourself - it requires lots of
>coordination with your partners.
>
>On the other hand, I would imagine that Doug and Mark would be able to
>move you to their VANs in a short period of time, even if staged. Would
>Doug or Mark be kind enough to give us an overview of the process
>involved in moving all of one's traffic from the big rapacious VANs to
>their gentler, kinder B2B Switches? Please include considerations on VAN
>inter-connects, also.
>
>To Bruce Peat: who's debating XML vs EDI?
>
>William J. Kammerer
>FORESIGHT Corp.
>4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy.
>Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305
>+1 614 791-1600
>
>Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/
>"Commerce for a New World"
>
>
>
>
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Steve Bollinger 408-853-8478
Cisco Systems B2B Service Logistics Pjt
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